Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, this may be a convenient point to make a business statement relating to the proceedings today. Clearly, when the matters before us were set down, we had anticipated in the usual channels that the approach to Third Reading would be normal—that is, the practice of the House is normally to resolve major points of difference by the end of Report stage and to use Third Reading for tidying up. Therefore, in the usual channels we felt that we were making an appropriate disposition of business today, whereby this Bill would be followed in the normal manner by a short Second Reading and that, after that, we could have a debate on—if I can colloquially call it this—matters of Leveson.
This Third Reading has gone beyond the normal time that one would expect for a Third Reading, and indeed some of the discussions have gone quite wide. Therefore, something that one might describe it as a little bit of a delegation came from those interested Peers who had been sitting very patiently waiting for their opportunity to take part in what, after all, is a major debate on the press and the media and all the matters surrounding the important report that was issued and known colloquially as the Leveson report. Those Peers felt that it had now become inappropriate for the House to consider the matter at a late hour.
I had some discussions with the members of that little, but very forceful, delegation, who felt that they were relaying some of the views of other Members. I certainly listened very carefully. I have had discussions with the opposition Front Bench, and I am very grateful to them, as ever, for their co-operation in the usual channels. As a result, it has been agreed that the Leveson debate will not proceed today but that we will find a date for it as soon as possible early in the new year. I have already had preliminary discussions with the Opposition and I feel sure that we will be able to find a convenient date very quickly. As soon as that has been achieved, I will naturally make a statement to the House. If it is a matter that we cannot resolve before the House rises, I will ensure that all party groups and the Convenor are able to put out the message as soon as possible so that the inconvenience which has clearly been experienced by the large number of Peers wanting to speak today is perhaps brought to an early end.
Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, on behalf of the Opposition I thank the noble Baroness for her statement. She has been very gracious in agreeing to rearrange the business. It will not be to everybody’s convenience, but at least it will be at a more convenient time and will enable a more congenial debate. Therefore, on behalf of these Benches, I am very grateful to the Government for their swift action on this point.
Lord Soley
My Lords, the Leveson debate is incredibly important not just for this House but for people around the country. For us to have held the debate in the early hours of the morning—which is what it would have gone into—would, frankly, have been profoundly wrong. I know that I have an interest, inasmuch as I produced the first Bill on the press some 20-odd years ago, as well as many other things, but I really feel that we would not have done ourselves or the public any good if we had continued with this. Therefore, in my view, the Government have made the right decision. I appreciate that it is inconvenient for some people, but it is the right decision and I am grateful.
Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, the statement just made by the Chief Whip is a very wise one, but perhaps I may put this point to her. The Leveson report is very long and detailed. Would she consider, along with the other parties, whether we should have a two-day debate when it comes back in the new year?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, I have already had preliminary discussions about the revised debate with the Leader and chief representatives of the Opposition and I am grateful for that. I shall consider all the options with regard to tabling the debate. Suffice it to say that we will ensure that enough time is made available and that adequate advance notice is given of the rescheduling of the debate.
Lord Prescott
My Lords, with regard to the new timing of this debate, I accept that a delegation had to get home instead of taking part in it and I understand the difficulties, although it was their choice rather than that of this House. However, will the Chief Whip make sure that we have the debate before any decisions are made? This is a chance for the House of Lords to give an opinion on the most important issue of the day, but if we end up giving that opinion after the decisions have been made, that will be most unfortunate. That is what we have given up tonight. Although we cannot tell when all this will be settled, let us at least find a time that allows us the possibility of expressing our views before any decisions are arrived at.
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, I agree entirely with the noble Lord, Lord Prescott. The matter of urgency was impressed on me by the delegation.
Lord Palmer
My Lords, does not the Chief Whip agree that the noble Lord, Lord Trees, ought to be given a letter of apology? He has gone through the agony of having to wait to make his maiden speech, but now he has had to postpone it. That really is pretty agonising.
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, I think that perhaps the noble Lord, Lord Trees, in waiting to make his maiden speech, has seen how self-regulation takes place in this House. Sometimes the rules are so elastic that no one can predict the way in which our debates may extrapolate and develop into new realms.
The Earl of Erroll
My Lords, this Third Reading underlines the importance of returning to our previous custom of pressing amendments to a Division at the Committee stage as a matter of principle and then tidying up on Report. The practice of withdrawing amendments in Committee and then pressing them on Report is leading to this problem of tidying up at Third Reading. I think that we should return to our old custom of pressing most issues to a Division in Committee, even if they are deficient in some way, because the Report stage is for tidying up.