Yacht and Boat Delivery Companies (Safety Regulations)
(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mike Penning)
In the short time I have remaining, I will try as best I can to articulate my thoughts on the issue that my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Torridge and West Devon (Mr Cox) has brought to the House’s attention today, and to me privately before this debate. It would be wrong of me not to say that my thoughts and prayers are with the families of those who were lost at sea. Going to sea has always been an enormously dangerous occupation—for anybody—and the bravery of our seafarers has been renowned for centuries.
It is shocking for me to have to stand before this House with not one but both hands tied behind my back. I have questioned my officials at length about the powers that I or other Government agencies have to deal not only with this issue, but with the other serious crimes at sea that I have recently discussed with the International Maritime Organisation—the body with responsibility for such matters—so that we can achieve international recognition of the problems. I will return to that issue, if I can, in moment.
I want to express my particular admiration for the sister of John Anstess, Mrs Wendy Wood, who has pursued her campaign for improvements in safety not just in order to bring to justice those involved in this case, but to protect other seafarers in similar situations who are delivering British yachts and other vessels around the world. We would all like what she is calling for to actually happen—particularly me, as the Minister with responsibility for such matters. However, the difficulty is that, as became clear in discussions with the outgoing and the new secretary-general of the IMO, we cannot act in isolation. The cases that my hon. and learned Friend referred to are on the other side of the Atlantic. We must make sure that we do not simply move this problem to France or Belgium, for instance, so that the same terrible situation occurs there.
In saying that, it is very important that we get the facts right. As my hon. and learned Friend said, the yacht that John was employed to move was not registered in the United Kingdom, and the sad loss occurred outside our territorial waters. That restricts enormously the powers of the Maritime and Coastguard Agency. As I have said to him, he has full access to the MCA at any time, and to any information he requires. He is a learned man and perhaps knows more about these matters than I do, but I can only go by the legal advice I am given. We have no powers in this regard. I was very surprised to discover, on looking at the documents, that even though the company in question was registered in the UK, the HSE has no powers. I wondered whether anything could be done under the new UK legislation on corporate manslaughter, or under reciprocal international agreements—we have seen a lot in the press about our reciprocal agreements with America—but it cannot.
My hon. and learned Friend and I will work together with the families concerned, and if we can find a way to prosecute this issue through my Department, my agencies, my Secretary of State or through any other Government Department, we will do so. My fear is that we will not find a way, but we will try, and if we can act, we will. Should we not find suitable avenues, I intend to push within government to shut this down for future situations, which is what John’s sister so desperately wants.
We are signed up to the international convention for the safety of life at sea—or the SOLAS convention—and so are all the red ensigns in the Crown protectorate. I know that my hon. and learned Friend knows the Cayman Islands well, and it flies my flag—the buck stops with me in respect of the red ensign, no matter where it flies in the world. So we are all party to this. The regulations are quite explicit. They put the responsibility for all navigational decisions in the hands of the master or skipper of the vessel. The regulations also make it an offence for anyone to try to pressurise the master into making decisions against his better judgment. That fits perfectly within our territorial waters, but not on the high seas. That is one of the biggest things we can work on with the IMO and address in the work we are doing to tackle crimes at sea. That is because it is the responsibility of the signatory to the regulations and the member states, although on the high seas the situation is completely different.
An investigation did take place, and I have some quotes here from the United States Coast Guard. It investigated the accident, and the quotations that my hon. and learned Friend cited were absolutely right. But—this is the big but—it concluded that no criminal offence had been committed under US law. That was the US Coast Guard’s comment, not mine. I have to, probably understandably, respect its decision.
I find it astonishing that after Mrs Wood secured the civil judgment against the company, the fines were paltry—“loose change” would be the polite term for them. The fact that the owner has not even paid the fines is another matter. If there is any way we can work within government to try to address that, too, we will do so. It was a civil action, so the situation is slightly different from that of a criminal action, as my hon. and learned Friend understands fully.
Nobody in this House would have put the argument across in a more lucid way than my hon. and learned Friend. As the Minister responsible for the agencies involved in this situation, I feel that it cannot be right that we are so restricted within government as to what we can and cannot do, given that we all want to do the right thing internationally, as well as here. From the discussions I have had with the new secretary-general of the IMO, I am aware that there is a keenness within the international community to address the terrible situation of serious crimes at sea, of which this is one, that go, not “uninvestigated”, although I nearly said that, but without reaching the natural justice that we would all be looking for.
This is not the only incident that I have been working on recently. It is right and proper that my hon. and learned Friend has brought these issues to me, but I am dealing with other issues where people have been raped at sea, murdered at sea or have vanished off ships on the high seas. One of the things that I have found really difficult is that one of the defences from some of the smaller flag nations is that they—perhaps—do not see the offence as serious enough or perhaps do not have enough funding within their police authority to investigate it fully. That is no excuse at all, and that is one of the big issues that we are continuing to raise at the moment.
I believe that I am very close to the time when I will have to sit down, Madam Deputy Speaker. Thank you for your kind nod. The last thing that I wish to say is that I will certainly meet the families as soon as we possibly can. I will work with my hon. and learned Friend and the families, and with anyone else who wants to work with us, so that we do everything we can to see whether this prosecution is possible and, if it is not, to make sure that we protect other families’ loved ones when they put to sea on the high seas.
Question put and agreed to.