Pensions (Extension of Automatic Enrolment) (No.2) Bill

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Committee stage
Wednesday 15th March 2023

(1 year, 1 month ago)

Public Bill Committees
Pensions (Extension of Automatic Enrolment) Act 2023 Read Hansard Text Amendment Paper: Public Bill Committee Amendments as at 15 March 2023 - (15 Mar 2023)

This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Pensions (Extension of Automatic Enrolment) Act 2023 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Matt Rodda Portrait Matt Rodda (Reading East) (Lab)
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It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Christopher. I will address my remarks purely to the amendments.

I thank the hon. Member for Glasgow East for his work on the subject. He made a deeply personal and heartfelt point about his own experience. However, there has been a wide range of discussion and debate on the matter, and I believe that this afternoon we ought to focus on the Bill itself. I am aware that time is pressing, and given the matters being discussed in the main Chamber, I will leave my remarks at that for now.

Laura Trott Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Laura Trott)
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It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Christopher.

I have respect for the hon. Member for Glasgow East, as he knows. I listened carefully to what he said. He set out his personal story beforehand, and it is very powerful. I reiterate the points made by my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North and by the hon. Member for Reading East. This was looked at as part of the 2017 review, and there will be a statutory consultation to follow it up.

David Linden Portrait David Linden
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I must say that in moving the amendment, I had rather hoped that more consideration and debate would be given to it. With the greatest respect to the hon. Member for Reading East, I am baffled that the Labour party has nothing to say. Perhaps that is consistent with its policy positions these days. It was not that long ago that hordes of young people at Glastonbury were chanting the name of the former Leader of the Opposition, the right hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn). This rather strikes me as a bit odd. I understand that the Government have not always been the kind of folk who tend to have lots of lovely things to say about the labour movement or young people, but I am particularly baffled that this Labour party has nothing to say, nor any explanation as to why it has arrived at this policy position, other than to say, “We agree with that lot.”

With that in mind, I have sought to stimulate debate—rather unsuccessfully—but I look forward to the Bill making progress, I hope. I do not disagree with the Bill itself, as I said, but when we come to later stages I hope that we can agree to improve automatic enrolment further and to give this a little more consideration than it has been given today. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---
Matt Rodda Portrait Matt Rodda
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Once again, it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Christopher. I commend the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North for his work on this Bill, and, indeed, other Members from across the House and the wider policy discussion about the importance of auto-enrolment. As the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West rightly said, pensions adequacy is a very important issue facing the whole of our society; it is a matter of great importance. We should, across the House, be encouraging people to save for their future, so it is important to debate this issue today.

I particularly want to say, in the time that I have, that auto-enrolment in itself is a great public policy success of the last few years. It dates back to the work of the Pensions Commission for the last Labour Government. The coalition Government implemented this change in 2012, and there has been growth in the number of people saving for a pension as a result. That is a commendable step forward.

However, pensions adequacy remains an issue and it is important for us to continue to go forward. In doing so, we need to work in a gradual, sensible and practical way to try to encourage auto-enrolment, and to work with stakeholders such as businesses, savers themselves and, indeed, society as a whole to try to take this work forward. In that spirit, I have some questions for the Minister.

This Bill will clearly offer real advantages to many younger people, who will be saving not only a greater sum, but from an earlier point in their life. That will help to build a much better pension pot for those pension savers. My questions for the Minister are primarily about the nature of the consultation, because as we have heard, it is hugely important that we work with pension savers themselves, with employers and with other stakeholder organisations to ensure that there is consensus on this issue and that policy is developed in a sensible way. Therefore I would like the Minister to explain to the Committee a little more about the nature of the consultation: in particular, what work the Department has done to encourage pension savers, especially young people, to be aware of the potential to save more for a pension in the future; the discussion that she has had with employers, both individual employers and employer organisations; and what she will do to continue to work with them, because when this legislation is implemented, it is a step forward for them—it is a greater contribution. We need to work with them.

I would like to know what work the Minister is doing with trade unions. They have a very important part to play in the roll-out of auto-enrolment. I was glad that the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North mentioned that and acknowledged the significant work that they do. I am also interested in the consultation, in so far as it has reached out to advice organisations such as Which? and many others that have an important role in the wider money and savings debate. I hope that she is discussing with them the importance of this.

My second question is about when the Department hopes to use these powers. As has been said, the Bill allows the Government the power to do this and explains how it would happen through a statutory instrument. However, the Bill does not specify when this might happen. The Minister has talked in the past about the mid-2020s. I would be grateful if she clarified how she defines mid-2020s, and whether she will take into account any other factors such as the overall performance of the economy and the nature of any continuing cost of living crisis as we approach that time.

Once again, I thank the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North for his work on this matter, and I thank colleagues from across the House. I look forward to further answers from the Minister about the importance of consultation and bringing stakeholder groups with us on this important journey.

Laura Trott Portrait Laura Trott
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I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North and, in absentia, the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham, on this excellent Bill, which will expand the benefits of automatic enrolment into workplace pensions to younger people and lower-paid workers.

I think we all agree that automatic enrolment has been a huge game changer in the workplace pension savings market over the past decade. Private sector workplace pension participation among eligible employees has increased by 44 percentage points since 2012, to 86% in 2021. As has been mentioned a couple of times, it has been especially transformative for women, low earners and young people, who historically have been poorly served by or excluded from workplace pensions. The proportion of women in the private sector participating in a workplace pension reached 87% in 2021, above that of men and more than double what it was in 2012.

Thanks to automatic enrolment, the overwhelming majority of eligible workers are now enrolled in a workplace pension, saving an asset for the future. Automatic enrolment is re-establishing a culture of retirement saving for a new generation. However, we know that there is more to do. The Government have made it clear that their ambition has always been to deliver on the 2017 automatic enrolment review measures. The review proposed two key measures: extending AE to young adults aged 18 to 21 by lowering the age criteria for enrolment; and removing the lower earnings limit, which would improve saving levels among low and moderate earners.

Since I took up my role as Minister for Pensions, I have been determined to make progress on AE expansion, and I am therefore delighted to confirm that the Government are supporting my hon. Friend’s Bill to do exactly that. The legislation will mean that younger workers and those who are in lower-paid employment—often because they work part time owing to personal circumstances, such as caring responsibilities—will be able to participate fully in automatic enrolment. For the first time, every worker will benefit from an employment contribution if they are enrolled or opt in; that is key to boosting the overall amounts being saved into a workplace pension. The powers in this Bill allow a Government-defined authority to deliver the changes set out in the 2017 review reforms, which Parliament has debated on numerous occasions, and I think there is broad agreement that it should become law.

On the questions from the hon. Member for Reading East, the Government are clear that implementing the expansion of automatic enrolment can only take place following consultation. That will be a consultation on the implementation approach and the timetable. He mentioned employer and employee engagement in particular. We absolutely need a full comms campaign, and—to the points raised by the hon. Member for Glasgow East—we could also look at what we can do for 16-year-olds. Even if we do not get quite where the hon. Member for Glasgow East wants us to with the age, I think there is more we can do to encourage them to opt in. We can discuss that as part of the consultation.

Trade unions were part of the original 2017 work, and I am very grateful to them for that. We have spoken to them frequently since, as we have to employer organisations. We will hold a series of roundtables now as we move towards the consultation, and we will involve them in the consultation. On timing, I would like to launch the consultation in the autumn, with this Bill going through, I hope, in the near future. I cannot say anything further than “mid-2020s”, I am afraid, but as soon as I am in a position to update the hon. Member for Reading East, I will of course do so.

Our objective is to maintain the broad political consensus for workplace pensions, which has been an important part of the success of the reforms since the beginning. The approach taken in the Bill to guarantee meaningful and detailed consultation to help implement the changes will help to build enduring support for this important work to boost the retirement aspirations of millions of our fellow citizens. Once again, I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North and I commend the Bill to the Committee.

Pensions (Extension of Automatic Enrolment) (No. 2) Bill

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

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This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Pensions (Extension of Automatic Enrolment) Act 2023 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Laura Trott Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Laura Trott)
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I begin by congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis), and my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham (Mr Holden) before him, on successfully piloting this Bill through all its stages in this House. Their efforts will improve the retirement aspirations for millions in the UK, from young people starting work at 18 with a pension for the first time, to those already in a workplace pension who will now build pension savings from the first pound of their earnings.

I acknowledge the support of Members across the House in progressing this legislation. The shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Wirral South (Alison McGovern), is right that there has been broad consensus on workplace pensions since the pensions commission. It is a testament to the importance that we all place on delivering improved retirement outcomes for our fellow citizens.

A lot has been achieved in the last decade of the reforms, as has been mentioned numerous times. More than 10 million people have been automatically enrolled into a workplace pension. More than 2 million employers are paying into employees’ pensions for the first time. My hon. Friends the Members for Crewe and Nantwich (Dr Mullan) and for Darlington (Peter Gibson) are right that it has been embraced by employers, and we should celebrate that. An additional £33 billion in real terms was saved into workplace pensions in 2021 compared with 2012. As has been mentioned, it has been especially transformative for women, low earners and young people, who historically have been poorly served by, or excluded from, workplace pensions. The Bill sets us on a path to do more for all those groups, who will benefit from increased saving in retirement, with many gaining access for the first time to employer contributions.

In Committee I spoke about the legislative powers in the Bill, and the duty placed on Government to consult on how we make the changes through regulations—both the approach to implementation and the timetable for doing so. We will report to Parliament on the outcome of that consultation before bringing forward the necessary secondary legislation, which will also be debated in this House. I look forward to engaging with hon. Members on those details, to ensure that the expansion of automatic enrolment is done in the right way for employers, workers and taxpayers.

To answer some of the shadow Minister’s questions directly, we will work closely with employers and trade unions throughout the consultation process. I have committed previously to launching the consultation in the autumn. I am not in a position to give an exact date, but I assure the hon. Member that I will push as hard as I can to get that as early as possible. Communicating to young people is incredibly important. Once we are through the consultation stage and we have a timeline for when we can make progress, we will work up a plan, and I will return to the House on that. On a timetable for the legislation to come into force, the commitment has previously been the mid-2020s, and that is what we will continue to say. We will have more of an idea once we have done the consultation process. I hope that answers all her questions.

In conclusion, it is to the huge credit of my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North that he successfully introduced the Bill on a cross-party basis and navigated its passage—[Interruption.] There is a first time for everything. I am delighted to say that the Government support the Bill and will continue to support it as it moves through Parliament. I wish it every success.

Pensions (Extension of Automatic Enrolment) (No. 2) Bill

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

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This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Pensions (Extension of Automatic Enrolment) Act 2023 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Viscount Younger of Leckie Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Viscount Younger of Leckie) (Con)
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My Lords, I am pleased to add my support to my noble friend Lady Altmann’s Bill. This legislation would bring into workplace pensions more younger people, women and those in part-time work, including workers not already benefiting from an employer pension contribution. My noble friend eloquently set out further detail of the Bill, its benefits and its beneficiaries.

The Government are committed to building on the success of automatic enrolment to date with a stronger, more inclusive savings culture for younger people. The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, was right to remind us of some of the historical context. My noble friend’s Bill would expand the automatic enrolment framework, which was one of the most radical reforms to the pensions landscape since Lloyd George enacted the first state pension nearly 120 years ago. This Bill builds on the undoubted success of workplace pensions and sits firmly within the political consensus established by the independent Turner commission, on which the noble Baroness, Lady Drake, served, as has been mentioned, and which set out the road map for these reforms in 2005. I add my name to those who have paid tribute to the noble Baroness in this respect.

I want to move straight on to the subject of small pots, which was raised by the noble Lord, Lord Davies. I hope that I can help in providing some answers because I agree—he is right to raise this issue—that the growth of deferred small pots is a huge challenge for the workplace pension market. We know that it acts as a burden on providers, reducing the value for money that pension schemes can provide and negatively impacting retirement outcomes for their members.

I assure the noble Lord and the House that the Government are taking decisive action to address this issue. We are consulting now on our ambition to deliver a framework for a default consolidator approach, which will enable a small number of authorised schemes to act as consolidators for deferred small pots in order to provide greater value for money for their members. In this way, we are working to address the current and future stock of deferred small pots. I note the comments made by the noble Lord today in this respect; we would very much welcome his contribution to the consultation if he has not already given his views, as I suspect he may well have done.

I turn to some of the points made by my noble friend Lady Altmann and the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock. We had an interesting, brief debate on the lowering of the age limit, which we reckon is about right at 18. The Bill provides for regulation-making powers to reduce the age for AE, rather than setting a specific number. This has been done to avoid pre-empting the statutory consultation. We do not wish to close off our ability to respond openly and thoughtfully to stakeholder proposals.

The 2017 review found 18 to be the appropriate minimum age for automatic enrolment. The current minimum of 22 has failed to keep pace with changes elsewhere, such as to the national minimum wage. The lower age also aligns with the entitlement to social security benefits, such as universal credit. Moving to 18 is seen as an effective way to embed the habit of workplace pension saving for young people as they start work for the first time. Indeed, the Government’s commitment for young people below the age of 18 in England and Wales to remain in education or receive training and employment through apprenticeships has resulted in a decrease in 16 and 17 year-olds in the labour market. Workers aged 16 and over will still be entitled to opt in to AE and receive an employer contribution if they choose to save into a workplace pension.

I also want to touch on pension tax relief. The Government recognise the different impacts of the two systems of paying pension tax relief on pension contributions for workers earning below the income tax personal allowance. This picks up on some points raised by my noble friend Lady Altmann. We have announced a new system that will make top-up payments to low earners in net pay schemes, many of whom are women—I think that she made this point—to address the net pay relief at source anomaly. The Treasury has confirmed that this will be introduced for contributions from 2024-25 onwards. In 2025-26, we estimate that up to 1.2 million individuals, 75% of whom are women, could benefit from top-ups worth on average around £50 each year. The Office for Budget Responsibility assesses that the cost to the Exchequer could be between £10 million and £15 million per year.

My noble friend Lady Altmann also raised the issue of low earners, as did one or two other Peers. The AE framework has an earnings trigger that is set at a level that aims to bring those individuals for whom it pays to save into pension saving automatically. The Secretary of State must review this trigger each year to help to make sure that it remains appropriate. As my noble friend mentioned, currently the trigger is set at £10,000. However, if an eligible worker earns below this amount, they can still choose to opt in to a workplace pension if they want to save, as mentioned earlier. The Bill is the essential first step to allow the expansion of AE. The Government are clear that these measures are the best route to enabling low and medium earners to save more, with more workers benefiting from the employer contribution to help them to build their retirement savings.

I will now move on to a few general comments about pensions and, indeed, the state pension, which was alluded to by the noble Lord, Lord Davies. I hope that I am not going too far in terms of his remarks, but hopefully this will set the scene a bit. I reassure the House that we believe that the state pension remains the foundation of the UK pension system. In April 2023, the state pension saw its biggest ever cash increase, rising by 10.1%, so that the full yearly amount of the basic state pension will be over £3,050 higher in cash terms than in 2010.

Workplace pensions sit on top of that foundation, helping to maximise individual retirement saving. This is an approach guided by the work of the independent Pensions Commission, which made clear the importance of reinvigorated private saving to help individuals to achieve their retirement aspirations. The Government continue to support the success of automatic enrolment, which has seen 10.9 million workers enrolled into a workplace pension since 2012, with an additional £33 billion saved in real terms in 2021 compared to 2012.

I move on to a more substantive point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Davies—I think that he mentioned it twice—which is what we are doing to reduce the gender pensions gap. As he will know, the pensions gap is a complex issue tied to the labour market, the pensions system and demographic differences, but one that the Government take seriously. We remain committed to implementing the 2017 review measures, which will disproportionately benefit lower earners, including people working in multiple jobs, who are predominantly women.

Going back to the basic concept of automatic enrolment, AE came along at a time when the UK was towards the very bottom of the OECD league tables on retirement saving. A radical reversal has taken place in the past decade putting us close to the top, with the UK now having the largest pension market in Europe. I pay tribute to those, some of whom are in the House today, for their efforts to make this happen.

In the private sector, workplace pension participation for eligible employees has increased from 42% in 2012 to 86% in 2021, representing a 44 percentage point increase. As my noble friend Lady Altmann said, it has been especially transformative for women, low-earners and young people. Her Bill would enable the Government to build on that success and deliver the expansion of AE.

There are a couple of other questions I want to answer—actually, about three—particularly from the noble Baroness, Lady Drake, from the noble Lord, Lord Davies, and from the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, on timing, which is a very fair question. The Government are committed to making progress in implementing the 2017 review measures, including lowering the age for being automatically enrolled and reducing the lower earnings limit so that pensions contributions are payable from the first pound of earnings, in the mid-2020s. We have always been clear that implementation of these measures and the timing must be done in a way and at a time which is affordable, balancing the needs of savers, employers and taxpayers, with a suitable lead-in time for implementation. I am afraid that that is as far as I can go on that, but as soon as I have any further detail I will certainly let the House know.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Drake and Lady Sherlock, are right that we need to look at any opt-out rate with great care in monitoring, and I reassure the House in that respect. The noble Baroness, Lady Drake, raised a very important point about AE enforcement. The regulator has a statutory duty to enforce compliance with employer AE duties. Employers must provide information about AE to each eligible employee, including their right to an employer contribution. If a worker has concerns about whether their employer is complying with the law, they can report their concerns to the regulator in confidence—as I suspect noble Lords will be aware.

Baroness Drake Portrait Baroness Drake (Lab)
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My point was that the regulator is doing a good job on enforcement, but very young people are quite vulnerable, and I was just saying that it needs a new lens brought to enforcement activity.

Viscount Younger of Leckie Portrait Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
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Absolutely. Again, I provide reassurance that we are very much alert to the issue and we shall be sure that we monitor it and keep the House updated.

The noble Lord, Lord Davies, raised the important subject of carers, and I have a couple of brief answers for him. The Government recognise the valuable role of carers and that they are disproportionately women. Where carers are working, if eligible, they will be automatically enrolled into a workplace pension, or they can opt in. The expansion of AE will see all those participating get an employer contribution from their first pound of earnings, and that will help to improve the incentive to save for those who are in lower-paid or part-time work, including carers.

Finally, to touch on consultation, which was raised by the noble Lord, Lord Davies, and others, the use of the Bill’s powers would be subject to a statutory consultation requirement and the affirmative procedure in both Houses to gain consensus on the implementation approach and timetable, so that the measures can be introduced in a way that is affordable for all parties, as mentioned earlier. This is a crucial point. While we are all rightly keen to build on the success of AE—and many Peers call for more and faster change, hence the questions on timing—the approach needs fully to take account of the impact of these measures on employers, workers and the Exchequer in a way that makes the changes both beneficial and affordable for all. To clarify, we intend to consult in the autumn with employers, payroll and delivery partners throughout the supply chain to get the implementation approach and timetable right before changes are introduced.

I again thank my noble friend Lady Altmann for taking the Bill through and for helping more people gain the benefits of retirement saving. I judge from the mood in the House that it shares my view of the importance of the Bill and the positive and sensible way in which it would allow for the future expansion of automatic enrolment, which I believe is an ambition we all share.

Pensions (Extension of Automatic Enrolment) (No. 2) Bill

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

Read Full debate

This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Pensions (Extension of Automatic Enrolment) Act 2023 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Baroness Sherlock Portrait Baroness Sherlock (Lab)
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I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Altmann, for piloting the Bill through this House and I share her thanks to the Minister and his team, and all noble Lords who participated. Auto-enrolment is a much-loved child with more than one parent. As the noble Baroness said, the work came from the Pensions Commission, set up by the last Labour Government and on which my noble friend Lady Drake and the noble Lord, Lord Turner, served with such distinction. The coalition Government implemented it in 2012, and there has been a welcome growth as a result in the number of people saving for a pension. We can all celebrate that—but, as we noted at Second Reading, pensions adequacy is still an issue, so we need to look at continually improving auto-enrolment and addressing the question of the gender pensions gap, which remains a matter of serious concern.

This simple, permissive Bill would allow the Government to make progress in fulfilling their commitment by implementing some of the 2017 review measures, namely reducing the lower age limit for being auto-enrolled and removing the lower earnings limit. The Minister confirmed at Second Reading that the Government were still committed to doing that in the mid-2020s. Without wishing to be depressing, as 2023 begins its descent towards the sea, I wonder if the Minister can give us any hint as to whether 2024 might be the year, or is this gently rolling into the grass beyond the election?

The Opposition fully support this Bill. I thank again all those involved in proposing it and look forward to its passage.

Viscount Younger of Leckie Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Viscount Younger of Leckie) (Con)
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My Lords, I, too, congratulate my noble friend Lady Altmann on piloting this excellent Bill to its final stages. As I said at Second Reading, it has the full backing of His Majesty’s Government, and I am pleased to reiterate that support today. As the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, has just said, the 2017 review measures will see hundreds of thousands more young workers brought into workplace pensions for the first time. Alongside this, 2.5 million existing savers will see their pension contributions grow. Removing the lower earnings limit will mean that every worker will be paying pension contributions from their first pound of earnings and benefit from an employer contribution. Overall, an extra £2 billion-worth would be saved a year.

I am grateful for the constructive scrutiny of the Bill from noble Lords on all sides of the House. I acknowledge the thoughtful interventions at Second Reading of the noble Baronesses, Lady Sherlock and Lady Drake, and the noble Lords, Lord Palmer of Childs Hill and Lord Davies of Brixton. If the House agrees to final passage today, the Government will look to play their part by consulting on how to implement the expansion of automatic enrolment at the earliest opportunity, which I hope gives some idea of the timescale to the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock. We hope that it could be later this year. We will then report to Parliament about how we intend to proceed in accordance with the provisions in the Bill. I am very pleased that there is cross-party support for my noble friend’s Bill, and I hope that this House will agree to its final passage today.