Household Support Fund

Will Quince Excerpts

Wednesday 31st January 2024 Westminster Hall

[Will Quince (Colchester) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hosie. I am grateful to the right hon. Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms) for securing this important debate. As we worked closely when I was a Minister at the Department for Work and Pensions, he knows how strongly I feel about the subject.

In 2020, my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Banbury (Victoria Prentis)—then a Minister at the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs—and I set up a small ministerial working group on food and essential items. We recognised that despite the significant support given to the most vulnerable during the pandemic, including free school meals, healthy start payments and the holiday activities and food programme, on top of the additional support specifically relating to covid, some families were still struggling, especially during the school holidays. We wanted to design a scheme that provided targeted support with a focus on food and bills. We also believed, as the right hon. Member for East Ham rightly pointed out, that local councils were best placed to understand which groups needed extra support and to get to the families most in need.

We initially started with £63 million secured from the Treasury for local welfare assistance. That then morphed into an additional £170 million through the covid winter grant scheme and then became, in October 2021, what it is today, which is the household support fund, with £842 million. Indeed, I understand that, so far, more than £2 billion has been distributed. As the right hon. Member for East Ham rightly set out, it has already helped millions of people and families, and like him I urge the Government to continue it so that it can continue to support millions more.

I understand that the fund is the Minister’s responsibility, but ultimately it is down to the Treasury. She is an excellent Minister, for whom I have so much time, and I have no doubt that she will point rightly to the considerable support currently available to families. However, we know that despite that there will sadly continue to be households that will struggle; they will struggle to afford the essentials and face severe hardship. The household support fund allows councils directly to target help to the hardest-hit families and individuals, as well as providing food for children who need it over the holidays.

I gently say to the Minister that, as the right hon. Member for East Ham pointed out, any family or household could be in crisis with energy, food and other essential items, such as the unexpected breakdown of a boiler or white goods breaking. I also gently say to her—noting that I have very little time—that the fund is a targeted safety net for when families and individuals have nowhere else to turn. When I look back at my time in the Government, it is one of the things that I am most proud of, because it has made a huge difference to millions of families up and down the country. I urge the Minister and the Treasury to ensure that the scheme is continued, so that it can go on to support millions more.

Universal Credit and Working Tax Credits

Will Quince Excerpts

Wednesday 15th September 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

Let me begin by thanking all hon. Members who have taken part in this important debate, and I will endeavour to respond to the points raised in the short time left available to me.

This debate has been wide ranging, and there is no question but that the last 18 months have brought unprecedented challenges. We have all had to change the way we have lived and worked, but in the face of adversity this Government provided an unprecedented response and delivered support to families across the country in response to this crisis.

We have heard how the £20 per week uplift to UC has made a difference to households facing economic shock and financial disruption as a result of the pandemic, and we have heard calls for the uplift to be made permanent and extended to those on legacy benefits. But I have to remind the House that the Chancellor has always been clear that the UC temporary uplift was a pandemic response, and he ensured that the support was in place well beyond the end of restrictions and reopening of our economy.

Not one Member of this House wants to see anyone in our constituencies in poverty. It is incumbent on all of us to work together to tackle the root causes and drivers of poverty. No one Member of this House has a monopoly on ideas and solutions to tackling poverty, and I have no doubt that everyone taking part in today’s debate wants to achieve the same outcome, but via differing means.

As we have heard in the debate, there have been significant positive developments in the public health situation since the extension to the uplift was announced: the vaccine roll-out is progressing well; restrictions have been eased; and our economy is opening up. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said in her opening speech, job vacancies are currently above pre-pandemic rates. They are sitting just below a record high since the series began in 2018. There are more than 1 million active vacancies in our labour market and hundreds of thousands are moving into employment every week. That is a very promising sign that our economy is recovering, and quickly.

Universal credit provides a safety net, but it is not designed to trap people on welfare. Fundamentally, we recognise that work is the best route to prosperity and it is therefore right that the Government should now shift their focus to supporting people back into work and to progress in work. We have a comprehensive plan for jobs to help us achieve that objective.

Several Members called for the uplift to be made permanent. I want to tackle head-on the suggestion that this is a cut. I have to say that this is what turns people off politics and politicians. The removal of a clear, time-limited measure for a specific purpose is clearly not a cut and to describe it as such is disingenuous. There is no saving; in fact, it is quite the opposite: a further £6 billion would need to be raised through taxation just to maintain the uplift, let alone to extend it to legacy benefits. To my knowledge, not one Opposition party called for an uplift to the standard allowance of universal credit 18 months ago. In fact, when the Labour party was last in Government, it did not increase the rate of unemployment benefit above inflation because it was concerned about work incentives.

Several Members raised the annual cost of the uplift, which I can confirm would be £6 billion. The Chancellor has been absolutely clear that new day-to-day spending must be funded through savings or taxation, as part of a return to living within our means. This all has to be paid for. As hard as these decisions are—and they are hard—we have a duty to be fiscally responsible and to ensure that we have a welfare safety net that is there to support those who need it, that incentivises work, that is fair to taxpayers and that is sustainable for the future.

It was precisely because of our fiscal prudence since 2010 that this Government were in a position to put in place an unprecedented support package during the worst stages of the pandemic, to protect people, jobs and livelihoods. For context, it may assist the House to know that to raise £6 billion in taxation would require the equivalent of adding 1p on the basic rate of income tax in addition to a 3p increase in fuel duty. That would be a significant tax increase for hard-working families next year.

Several Members expressed concerns about poverty, which of course concerns me too. As I have said, universal credit provides a safety net, but it is not designed to trap people in welfare. All the evidence suggests that work, particularly full-time work, is the best route out of poverty and to prosperity. In 2019-20, there was only a 3% chance of children being in absolute poverty if both parents worked full time, compared with a 42% chance for two-parent families with only part-time work. Whether it is kickstart, restart, JETS or the 13,500 additional work coaches, this Government have a comprehensive plan for jobs to help us to achieve our objective.

In 2021-22, we will spend more than £111 billion on benefits for working-age people. On our support for those who are struggling, there will be £670 million in funding for local authorities, to help with council tax support; nearly £2 billion to increase the local housing allowance and maintain it in cash terms; £140 million in discretionary housing payments; and £220 million to extend the holiday activities and food programme. We have increased Healthy Start voucher payments from £3.10 to £4.25, and we have increased the national living wage by 2.2% to £8.91 an hour and extended it to all those aged 23 or over.

In conclusion, as we have demonstrated during the pandemic, the Government are committed to supporting the poorest, the lowest-paid and the most vulnerable in our society and to ensuring that people have the support that they need. Now is the time to be positive and ambitious and to look to the future. The expected rise in unemployment during 2021 has not materialised. The unemployment rate is now around half a percentage point lower than it was at the start of 2021. Vacancies are up to record numbers and now stand at more than 1 million, which is more than double the number this time last year. The number of furloughed workers is falling each week and the number of payrolled workers is up by nearly 1 million since the start of the year. Everything is moving in the right the direction, so our focus is rightly on continuing the implementation of our multibillion-pound plan for jobs. After all, a working Britain is a Britain that works. That is a pillar of our agenda as we build back better and fairer for our whole United Kingdom.

Question put.

Oral Answers to Questions

Will Quince Excerpts

Monday 13th September 2021 Commons Chamber

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

7. How many people in Wales in receipt of universal credit are in work.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

In June 2021, there were 107,000 people on universal credit in employment in Wales.

[Chris Bryant]

I do worry about this cut to universal credit of £20 a week. In a constituency such as mine, that is taking £6.5 million out of the local economy. That is going to make it more difficult for local businesses to afford extra staff and more difficult for people to find jobs, so it is a completely counterproductive measure, leaving aside the cruelty of making families struggle on even less money. As I understand it, the Secretary of State said this morning to people who are going to lose the £20 a week, “Well, you just either need to get a better job or work more hours.” Can the Minister explain to us, and to the 2,543 people in the Rhondda who are in employment and on universal credit, how many extra hours at the national minimum living wage they would have to work to get that £20?

[Will Quince]

That of course would depend on their individual circumstances, but to answer the hon. Gentleman’s question, the Government have always been clear that the £20 increase was a temporary measure to support households affected by the economic shock of covid-19. There have been significant positive developments in the public health situation since the uplift was introduced, with the success of the vaccine roll-out, restrictions being lifted and our economy opening up, and now there are more than 1 million live vacancies in our jobs market. I will take one issue with what the hon. Gentleman said: he referred to a cut. A cut would represent savings. There are no savings. What he is proposing is an extra £6 billion to £9 billion, which would need to be raised by taxes.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (Ind)]

8. What steps her Department is taking to support pensioners living in poverty.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mick Whitley (Birkenhead) (Lab)]

11. What assessment she has made of the impact on levels of poverty of ending the £20 uplift to the standard allowance of universal credit. [R]

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

It is not possible to produce a robust estimate of the impact of removing the £20 uplift on poverty. That is particularly the case at the moment, given the uncertainty around the speed of the economic recovery and how it will be distributed across the population.

[Mick Whitley]

Cutting universal credit will cause misery for millions of people, including my constituent in Birkenhead, Jess, who says that the extra £20 a week means she no longer has to choose between a hot meal and a hot shower. On Wednesday, Unite the Union and Community members who, like Jess, rely on the uplift to stay afloat will be visiting Parliament. Will the Secretary of State commit to meet them, so she can hear for herself why the Government must cancel the cut?

[Will Quince]

The hon. Gentleman references cancelling the cut. As I said before, there is no cut because there is no financial saving. If this measure were to continue, the Treasury would need to find an extra £6 billion to £9 billion to fund the temporary uplift. It was always a temporary uplift to universal credit. As a result, the temporary uplift will continue as planned.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ruth Jones (Newport West) (Lab)]

13. What discussions she has had with the Welsh Government on the impact of ending the £20 uplift to the standard allowance of universal credit on people in Newport West constituency.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

There is a well-established working relationship between my Department and the Welsh Government, ensuring we work together on devolved and reserved areas effectively. However, universal credit is a policy reserved to the UK Government.

[Ruth Jones]

In Newport West, these cruel cuts to universal credit will hit about 9,000 families, including almost 6,000 children. That is unforgiveable and I will keep fighting these Tory cuts to universal credit. In a written parliamentary question to the Secretary of State, I asked whether she would meet me to address the impact of the cuts on the people of Newport West. The Minister replied to me but ignored my request to meet, so let us try again. Will the Minister please meet me to discuss the impact the cuts will have on the people of Newport West?

[Will Quince]

We have always been clear: the uplift for universal credit was a temporary measure responding to the extraordinary circumstances. Our focus now is rightly on our plan for jobs, with tailored programmes to build skills, move towards employment, increase hours, get back into work or climb the career ladder, because we know that work is the best route to a brighter future.

[Neil Coyle (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (Lab)]

16. What steps her Department plans to take to measure the potential effect of the removal of the £20 uplift to the standard allowance of universal credit from 6 October 2021 on levels of food bank usage.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

Food banks are independent charitable organisations and the Department for Work and Pensions does not have any role in their operation. There is no consistent and accurate measure of food bank usage at a constituency or, indeed, national level.

[Neil Coyle]

Since 2010, there has been an explosion in the number of people unable to put food on the table. Conservatives such as the hon. Member for Hertford and Stortford (Julie Marson) admit that taking £20 a week off universal credit current payments, to use the Minister’s vernacular, will result in another dramatic rise in food bank demand. The Trussell Trust predicts that 900,000 more people will need support. Will the Minister or the Secretary of State meet the all-party group on ending the need for food banks and organisations working on this issue to ensure that there is capacity to meet Government-driven demand?

[Will Quince]

Of course, I am always happy to meet the hon. Gentleman, as I have always sought to do. I remind the House that there have been significant improvements in the public health situation, the vaccine roll-out is a huge success, our economy is opening up, restrictions are lifted, and we have a record number of vacancies in our labour market. Universal credit provides a safety net but it is not designed to trap people on welfare. Work is the best route out of poverty and to prosperity, but I am very happy to meet him to discuss this further.

[Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP)]

17. What recent assessment she has made of the adequacy of the level of universal credit received by claimants.

[Martyn Day (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (SNP)]

23. What recent assessment she has made of the adequacy of the level of universal credit received by claimants.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

The Secretary of State is legally required to conduct an annual review of benefits and pension rates to determine whether they have retained their value in relation to the general level of prices and earnings. The uprating process for working-age benefits has traditionally relied on the September consumer prices index figure and, in April 2021, universal credit was increased by CPI of 0.5%.

[Richard Thomson]

If the UK Government plough ahead with their planned cut to universal credit, it will result in one in three families with children in Scotland losing over £1,000 overnight and plunge 20,000 children into poverty. Does the Minister understand why so many people in Scotland think that it is the uplift that should stay and the Government snatching away that financial lifeline that should go instead?

[Will Quince]

There is no objective way of deciding what an adequate level of benefit should be, as everyone has different requirements. Income-related benefit rates are not made up of separate amounts of specific items of expenditure, such as food or fuel charges. The Government have always been clear that this uplift was a temporary measure, and I gently remind the hon. Gentleman that we spend over £110 billion on benefits for working-age people.

[Martyn Day]

I wonder whether the Ministers can tell us whether any of them actually listened to the evidence of the Work and Pensions Committee last week about hard-pressed families and the effect that universal credit was having on them. If they did, what would they say to their faces about taking £1,040 away from them?

[Will Quince]

What I would say is that I am proud that this Government stepped forward at the beginning of the pandemic to put in place the largest cash increase in our welfare safety net to support people through an unprecedented period of economic shock and financial disruption, but as our economy opens up, we have record numbers of vacancies in our labour market—we know that work is the best route out of poverty—and it is absolutely right that we tack our approach to support and empower people into work and to progress in work.

[Liz Twist (Blaydon) (Lab)]

18. What recent estimate she has made of the proportion of children in relative poverty where at least one adult in that household is in employment.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

National statistics on the number and percentage of children in low-income households are published annually in the “Households below average income” publication. In 2019-20, 19% of children living in households where at least one adult is in employment were in relative poverty before housing costs.

[Liz Twist]

The Government are very keen to say that work is the route to escape from poverty. However, over 27% of children in my Blaydon constituency live in poverty and many of those are in families where at least one parent or more is in work. The £20 universal credit uplift removal will push working families deeper into poverty, so what will the Government do to tackle the crisis of in-work poverty?

[Will Quince]

We know—all evidence suggests—that full work dramatically reduces the risk of poverty. As our economy improves, we will increasingly focus on progression to improve opportunities for those in low-paid work and support them towards financial independence. But the hon. Lady is right, and I recognise that moving into work is not always enough to lift people out of poverty; that is why we have the independent in-work progression commission, which published its report over the summer on the barriers to progression for those on persistent low pay. It makes a number of recommendations for the Government that we will consider very carefully and respond to later in the year.

[Chris Clarkson (Heywood and Middleton) (Con)]

19. What specialist support her Department is providing to young jobseekers at the start of their careers.

--- Later in debate ---

[Rebecca Long Bailey (Salford and Eccles) (Lab)]

T3. More than 7,000 people in Salford are on the housing waiting list, which is forcing many to rent privately, but the under-35 rule means that younger vulnerable constituents claiming universal credit receive only enough to cover a single room in a shared house, with people they do not know. One of my constituents fled domestic abuse and they do not meet the narrow criteria for exemption until 2023. Will the Secretary of State commit today to urgently expand exemptions from the shared accommodation rate?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

I thank the hon. Lady for that question. As she knows, we have brought forward two of the exemptions to the shared accommodation rate. We have committed to the third, and if I can accelerate it, of course I will do so.

[Jacob Young (Redcar) (Con)]

I commend my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and her Department for their success in doubling the number of work coaches to 27,000 in just a few short months. Does she agree that thanks to that boost more jobseekers will get the personalised support they need?

Social Justice and Fairness Commission

Will Quince Excerpts

Wednesday 21st July 2021 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

It is a pleasure to serve under you in the Chair, Ms Bardell. May I personally thank you for your enlightened approach and position in relation to jackets and the wearing thereof, given the heat? I also thank the hon. Member for East Renfrewshire (Kirsten Oswald) for securing this debate on a report that covers many important issues.

The report from the Social Justice and Fairness Commission, set up by the Scottish National party, is very wide-ranging. It covers a number of areas where policy is already devolved to the Scottish Government. I will predominantly focus, as I mentioned to the hon. Lady ahead of the debate, on areas that fall within my remit and that of my Department.

Let me start by reminding hon. Members of the UK Government’s long-standing commitment to devolution. The Scotland Act 2016 gave the Scottish Parliament significantly increased powers as well as responsibility for social security benefits worth about £3 billion. It also has powers to create new benefits in areas of devolved responsibility, to top up reserved benefits and to provide discretionary payments in this area.

My Department has made every effort to support the Scottish Government in the delivery of their plans and priorities. There is close working at every level. There is also regular constructive ministerial engagement through the joint ministerial working group on welfare to discuss the transfer of powers, in the spirit of the Smith agreement.

Returning to the key focus of today’s debate, I share the concerns expressed by the hon. Member for Warrington North (Charlotte Nichols) and other hon. Members about poverty levels in Scotland and, indeed, in the UK as a whole. As a Government, we are wholly committed to tackling that, and it is only right that any Government are held properly to account for the effectiveness of their policies in this area. I want to put it on the record that I do not want to see anybody in Scotland—or anywhere in our United Kingdom, for that matter—living in poverty; and although I do not have within my control all the levers to tackle poverty, I want to assure the hon. Member for East Renfrewshire and other Members that I take this issue incredibly seriously and I am working with counterparts across Government to identify, tackle and address the root causes and drivers of poverty.

Over the past 16 months, our priority has of course been to help people to withstand the financial hardships brought about by the pandemic. Such unprecedented economic circumstances have called for an unprecedented economic response, and I believe that this Government have delivered that by spending more than £407 billion on support measures to mitigate the impact of the pandemic, including, for example, the furlough scheme and the self-employment income support scheme. That has helped to protect one in three jobs in Scotland, helped to keep businesses afloat and helped families, wherever they live across our United Kingdom, to get by. As we move forward, our collective priority must be recovery—recovering from the challenges that the covid pandemic has created. I stress that the UK Government will of course work hand in hand with the Scottish Government on this mission, because we will recover faster and stronger if we work together.

That spending also includes the additional £7.4 billion injected into the welfare system, which the hon. Lady referred to, to provide further support for those most in need, raising our total spend on welfare support for people of working age to over £111 billion in 2020-21. As she rightly said, this extra funding includes the temporary £20 increase to the universal credit standard allowance and the working tax credit standard allowance, and nearly an additional £1 billion to the local housing allowance, topping up the rates to the 30th percentile of local market rents, which we maintained in cash terms at the same level this year.

The measures brought in by this Government in response to the pandemic targeted support at those who needed it most in a swift and effective way.

[Kirsten Oswald]

The Minister spoke about the £20 uplift and then moved swiftly on, as if the people in receipt of that uplift will not still have the same need when it is pulled from under their feet. How does he think that the families concerned will manage without that money, which has clearly been much needed? How does he think that it suddenly stops being needed when he pulls the plug?

[Will Quince]

The hon. Lady is right to point out that universal credit has provided a vital safety net for approximately 6 million people during the pandemic and, as she rightly suggests, we announced the temporary uplift as part of the £400 billion package of measures that was put in place to support those facing the most financial disruption and economic shock as a result of the pandemic. I hasten to add that that measure was not being called for by any other party in the House of Commons. Nevertheless, it was a measure to support those facing that economic shock and financial disruption, and the point is that it will last—the temporary uplift having been extended further by six months—well beyond the end of the road map.

Notwithstanding the points that the hon. Lady makes, and I know that they come from the right place and that she is very passionate about these issues, our focus now is on our multi-billion pound plan for jobs, which will support people in the long term by helping them to learn new skills, to increase their hours and, of course, to find new work.

The report talks at length about universal basic income, so I will touch on that very briefly, if I may, and also services. However, we know that these do not target support at those in greatest need and that they fail to take into account the significant additional costs faced by many individuals, including those, for example, with disabilities or childcare responsibilities.

As we look towards our economic recovery, tackling poverty will be very much at the heart of our mission. We have long championed the principle that the best way to do so is to support people, wherever possible, to move into work and to progress in work through our reformed welfare system, which ensures that families of all backgrounds are better off in work.

Statistics for 2019-20 show that, before the pandemic, the UK was in a strong position overall, with record levels of employment, rising incomes and 1.3 million fewer people, including 300,000 fewer children, in absolute poverty after housing costs, compared with 2010. In Scotland, the proportion of children in absolute low income reduced by 3 percentage points to 17% before housing costs in the three years to 2019-20, compared with 20% in the three years to 2009-10. But there is still a lot of work to do in that area.

Helping people back into work is key to levelling up across the whole of Great Britain, and the Department for Work and Pensions is playing a central role in delivering this Government’s ambitious £30 billion plan for jobs, which is already helping people of all ages right across the country. That includes over £7 billion on new schemes such as kickstart. Since it launched last September, over 10,500 kickstart jobs have been advertised in Scotland and over 3,500 young people have started in kickstart roles.

The evidence is clear that parental employment, particularly where it is full time, substantially reduces the risk of a child growing up in poverty, but we know that having a job is not always enough to lift families out of poverty. People also need the right skills and opportunities to progress in their roles, so that they can increase their earnings and build a career. That is very much a focus of the Department going forward.

The independent In-work Progression Commission published its report on the barriers to progression for those in persistent low pay earlier this month and we will consider its recommendations carefully before responding later this year. I encourage both the Scottish Government and employers across Scotland—indeed, across the whole of the United Kingdom—to do the same.



Through our recently expanded UK-wide network of jobcentres, we are also taking wider action to support those whose ability to work is affected by a range of often complex barriers to work. Customers with a drug or alcohol dependency who are not in treatment can be referred for a voluntary discussion with a local treatment provider to discuss their dependency issues and treatment options, for example. We are able to put in a six-month drug and alcohol easement for those in structured recovery treatments, so that work availability and work search requirements within UC are switched off for up to six months, giving the claimant the time and space to recover. Furthermore, for those in recovery who are moving into work, our Access to Work grant provides adaptions and specialist equipment for the workplace.

Work coaches have been key to the support that we have been able to provide over the last 16 months. They can also play a crucial role in preventing homelessness through the provision of tailored support via universal credit. That can include pausing the requirement for homeless claimants to look for work while they resolve things such as accommodation issues, and helping customers to access the right additional housing assistance and all-important expert support. Additionally, work coaches can offer voluntary referrals to local housing teams under the duty to refer.

Before I conclude, I will touch on pensions, which are also referenced in the report. We are absolutely committed to maintaining a private pensions system that ensures financial security for current and future pensioners. Automatic enrolment has, without question, been hugely successful, with more than 10 million individuals—including more women, lower earners and young people—now building greater financial resilience for their future. We are committed to reaching more of those previously under-served groups by implementing the 2017 automatic enrolment review, and to further improving schemes and information for savers under the Pension Schemes Act 2021. That is a joint endeavour, so Government, employers, industry and individuals all need to play their part in delivering a system that is affordable and sustainable for all.

[Kirsten Oswald]

A number of important points were raised, and I understand that the Minister cannot possibly deal with them all in the short time available. However, I am particularly keen to hear from him about the rape clause and how such a policy, which causes such harm and damage to women, can be part of any just social security system.

[Will Quince]

I thank the hon. Lady for raising that issue. I know that the two-child policy is not supported by the Scottish National party, and it is regularly raised at oral questions. What I would say is that a benefits structure that adjusts automatically to family size is unsustainable, notwithstanding the points that she makes. The 2020 figures from the Office for National Statistics suggest that 85% of families with dependent children have a maximum of two in their family; for lone-parent families, the figure was 83%. The Government therefore feel that it is proportionate to provide support through child tax credit and universal credit for a maximum of two children, but we recognise that some claimants cannot make the same choices about the number of children in their family. That is exactly why exemptions such as the non-consensual sex exemption, which the hon. Lady mentioned, have been put in place to protect those individuals.

[Kirsten Oswald]

Given what the Minister has just said about the high proportion of families for whom such policies would clearly not be relevant, will he explain why he thinks the two-child policy and the rape clause have any place in a socially just system?

[Will Quince]

On this particular issue, the hon. Lady and I will have to agree to disagree. The policy is based on the principle of fairness.

[Charlotte Nichols]

Will the Minister give way?

[Will Quince]

Let me finish answering first. Even if we park the fact that it would cost around £2 billion a year to reverse the policy decision, it is based on fairness, because the idea is that those who are in receipt of benefits should have to make the same life choices—

[Kirsten Oswald]

It is important to say to the Minister on the record that it is unhelpful to use the phrase “life choices” when talking about things such as the rape clause. I know that he is thoughtful about matters in this area of social security, but he is trying to defend the indefensible. I come back to the question of how this could possibly be just.

[Will Quince]

The hon. Lady is conflating two issues. She is conflating the two-child policy, in and of itself, which is a matter of fairness—it is about putting those who are in receipt of benefits in the same position as those who are not, when it comes to facing life choices—with what she refers to as the rape clause, which I refer to as the non-consensual sex exemption. That is exactly why we have that exemption in place.

[Charlotte Nichols]

I am interested in how a policy that, as the hon. Member for East Renfrewshire said, affects only a very small number of people can be unsustainable. We know that all money put into early years represents a saving over a child’s lifetime, particularly for those children who are in the sharpest financial straits because of their family circumstances. Those are, of course, no fault of the child, so how can this be a matter of fairness?

To pick up on the point about the rape clause—non-consensual sex is rape—how can it possibly be fair that at a time when we have a conviction rate of less than 1.6%, women are being asked to re-traumatise themselves, not only through the justice system, but in accessing the support that their families need?

[Will Quince]

Again, on this particular policy, we are not going to agree. It is one of many issues on which the hon. Member for Warrington North and the hon. Member for East Renfrewshire will not agree with me, and I understand that. They say, “It is not very much money. It is a very small policy—it is £2 billion here.” If I add up in my head the cost of the policies that the hon. Ladies have said over the past half hour that they would like to bring in, it comes to more than £15 billion, plus inflation at the consumer prices index rate, every year for ever more. We should bear in mind that we already spend around £100 billion a year on benefits supporting working-age people. This is probably a debate for another day. I think that the position is very much one of fairness, but I have no doubt that the hon. Member for East Renfrewshire will continue to champion this cause and campaign on the matter.

Our full focus must be on recovering from the challenges that the covid pandemic has created. We have protected all the jobs we could through the furlough scheme, and we are now pivoting towards getting people back into work and progressing in work through our plan for jobs. We are also focusing on ensuring that our children can catch up on their missed education and giving young people the right opportunities to get a foot in the labour market.

It is absolutely right that as the country begins to recover from the effects of the pandemic, we ensure that the welfare state continues to support the most disadvantaged in our society. As we have done throughout the past 16 months, we will continue to assess how best to target taxpayers’ money on support for the most vulnerable families beyond the pandemic.

Welfare System and Child Poverty: Wales

Will Quince Excerpts

Tuesday 20th July 2021 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley. I thank the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts) for securing a debate on this hugely important issue. I share many of the concerns that she has expressed about poverty levels in Wales. I do not want to see a single child in Wales, which she knows I have huge affection for, or anywhere else in our United Kingdom, growing up in poverty.

It is absolutely right that all Governments are held properly to account for the effectiveness of their policies for tackling child poverty. Although I do not have all the levers to tackle child poverty within the Department for Work and Pensions, I assure the right hon. Lady that I take this issue incredibly seriously, and I am working with my counterparts across Government to identify and address the root causes and drivers of child poverty.

Our working relationship with the Welsh Government is well established and positive. The commitments made to Wales by the UK Government are central to delivering policies and services across the Union. We will continue to work closely with the Welsh Government on the commitments set out in their programme for government 2021 to 2026. An example is our collaboration with Careers Wales to revisit our redundancy offer and develop the service through a digital platform. In adapting our approach, we maintained distance support, one-to-one advice and fully engaged with employers to guide them and their workforce through the full package of support from both the DWP and the Welsh Government.

Over the past year, our priority has been to help families in all parts of our United Kingdom withstand the financial hardships brought about by the covid-19 pandemic. Such unprecedented times and circumstances have called for an unprecedented response. The Government have delivered this by spending over £407 billion on support measures to mitigate the impact of the pandemic, including the furlough scheme and the self-employment income support scheme. That has helped to protect jobs, keep businesses afloat and help families get by.

Spending includes an additional £7.4 billion injected into our welfare system to further support those most in need, targeted at those facing the greatest economic shock and financial disruption, and raising our total spend on welfare support for people of working age to over £111 billion in 2020-21. Extra funding includes the temporary £20 increase in the universal credit and working tax credit standard allowances, which the right hon. Lady referred to. In addition, nearly £1 billion has been spent on increasing local housing allowance rates to the 30th percentile of local market rents, which we are maintaining for a further year at cash level.

As we look to economic recovery, tackling child poverty will be very much at the heart of our mission. We have long championed the principle that the best way to do so is to support parents wherever possible to move into and progress in work through our reformed welfare system, which ensures that families of all backgrounds are better off in work. The Department for Work and Pensions in Wales, in partnership with the Welsh Government, delivered two community project: Communities for Work, helping the economically inactive and long-term unemployed in some of Wales’ most disadvantaged wards; and Parents, Childcare and Employment, for those for whom childcare is the main barrier to employment. Through these projects, eligible parents can access support for childcare while training and gaining skills to get a job. Since both projects started in 2016, Communities for Work has helped almost 11,500 customers to move off benefits and into work.

Statistics for 2019-20 show that before the pandemic the UK was in a strong position overall, with record levels of employment, rising incomes and 1.3 million fewer people, including 3000,000 fewer children, in absolute poverty after housing costs, compared with 2010. In the right hon. Lady’s constituency, the proportion of children in absolute low income reduced by three percentage points to 16% before housing costs in 2019-20, compared with 19% in 2014-15. However, there is still a huge amount to do.

Helping people back into work is also key to levelling up across Great Britain. My Department is playing a central role in the Government’s ambitious £30 billion plan for jobs, which is already delivering for people of all ages across the country. This includes over £7 billion on new schemes, such as the kickstart scheme, which in Wales is running alongside Youth Offer Wales for people aged over 16. Since the kickstart scheme launched last September, over 8,000 kickstart jobs have been advertised in Wales, and over 2,000 young people have started in roles.

During the last financial year, we fulfilled our commitment to recruit 13,500 more work coaches across Great Britain and our jobs army is working across all regions to give people the support needed to find employment. Each work coach receives specialist training to give in-depth knowledge of local labour markets, matching the skills of the claimant with the needs of businesses in their area. Under our rapid estate expansion programme, or REAP, we are opening new job centres to accommodate the work coaches. I refer the right hon. Lady to the opening on 19 May of a new site on Queen Street in Cardiff, which is now fully operational, with over 63% of interventions carried out face to face. Plans are underway to open additional REAP sites in Wrexham, Rhyl and Swansea.

The evidence is clear that parental employment, particularly full-time employment, substantially reduces the risk of child poverty. However, we know that having a job is not always enough to lift families out of poverty. People also need the right skills and opportunities to progress in their roles, so that they can increase their earnings and build their careers. The independent in-work progression commission published its report on the barriers to progression for those in persistent low pay on 1 July. We will consider its recommendations carefully before responding later in the year. I encourage the Welsh Government and employers in Wales to do the same.

The right hon. Lady raised a number of issues, and I will do my very best to respond to as many as possible in the time remaining. First, she referred to devolution in Wales. The Department for Work and Pensions is committed to delivering the St David’s Day agreement in full. As she knows, the Wales Act 2017 implements the parts of the agreement that require primary legislation. However, employment and social security, as she mentioned in her speech, did not form part of that agreement. The previous Welsh Government commissioned work on the question of more devolution in the administration of the benefits system, but they have made no request to the UK Government for further powers in that area.

A single labour market needs a system of financial support for jobseekers and workers that provides a common framework of support, conditions to be met in return for that support, and access to employment and training opportunities. As the right hon. Lady knows, that is delivered through universal credit and associated employment provision, operated locally by Jobcentre Plus across Wales, and reflects both local labour markets and the differing needs of individuals. That not only ensures a coherent system across a single labour market, with equal treatment regardless of geographical location; it also allows for a pooled risk system that flexes and is able to accommodate asymmetric economic circumstances in different parts of the country.

The right hon. Lady knows that in the Department for Work and Pensions, and in particular within my remit, there are two potential levers for tackling child poverty: benefits and support for those of working age, and support to get people into work and to progress in work. However, she will know that some of the other drivers of child poverty, the root causes, are housing, education, health, addiction, family breakdown and debt. Many of those are issues on which the Welsh Government can take action. I know that they are doing so in many areas, and she may wish to push them further.

The right hon. Lady mentioned the removal of the universal credit uplift. As she rightly said, universal credit has provided a vital safety net for over 6 million people during the pandemic. We announced the temporary uplift as part of a £400 billion package of measures that will last well beyond the end of the road map. However, it is right that we now focus on our multibillion pound plan for jobs, which will support people in the long term by helping them learn new skills and increase their hours or find more work.

The right hon. Lady rightly referred to a response to a written parliamentary question from the hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams), in which I said that it was not possible to produce a robust estimate of the impact on child poverty of removing the £20 uplift. That is particularly the case at the moment because of the uncertainty around the speed of our economic recovery and how that will be distributed across our population.

The right hon. Lady also rightly mentioned food insecurity, which is an issue that concerns me too. We take the issue incredibly seriously, which is why we have, for the first time, published data on household food insecurity from the family resources survey, in order to get a better understanding of the lived experience of families. I have gone one step further: in subsequent editions of the survey, we will now ask questions specifically on food bank use.

The most recent data from the survey shows that most households were food secure, with either high household food security or marginal household food security—high household food security at 87% and marginal household food security at 6%. A minority of households were food insecure, with low household food insecurity at 4% and very low household food insecurity at 4%. That is why we want that additional data, so that we can really get to the bottom of the core drivers of food insecurity.

The right hon. Lady referred to the two-child policy. We have a benefits structure that adjusts automatically. If we were to set up, as she would like us to, a benefits structure that adjusted automatically to family size, it would be unsustainable. Statistics from the Office for National Statistics show that, in 2020, of all families with dependent children, 85% had a maximum of two in their family, and for lone parents the figure was 83%. The Government therefore feel that it is proportionate to provide support through the child tax credit and universal credit systems for a maximum of two children. What I will say, though, is that we recognise that some claimants are not able to make the same choices about the number of children in their family, and that is why exceptions have been put in place.

I am conscious of the time and would be very happy to pick this up with the right hon. Lady at a later date to discuss some of the issues that I have not been able to cover as part of my response now. To conclude, I restate the Government’s firm belief that the approach that we are taking to support families back into work is the right one for families, wherever they live across our United Kingdom, if we are to tackle child poverty in a way that is sustainable and to level up opportunities across our country. Of course it is absolutely right that as the country begins to recover from the effects of the pandemic, we ensure that our welfare state continues to support the most disadvantaged; and as we have done throughout the past 16 months, we will continue to assess how best to target taxpayers’ money on support for the most vulnerable families beyond the pandemic.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Will Quince Excerpts

Monday 28th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Richard Burgon (Leeds East) (Lab)]

What recent progress her Department has made on tackling child poverty.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

Throughout the pandemic, our priority has been to protect the most vulnerable, which is why we spent an additional £7.4 billion last year to strengthen the welfare safety support for working-age people. Our ambition is to help parents return to work as quickly as possible, as there is clear evidence of the importance of having parents in work for reducing the risk of child poverty. That is why we are spending over £30 billion on a comprehensive plan for jobs.

[Rushanara Ali [V]]

I thank the Minister for his answer, but 60% of kids in my constituency are living in poverty, and over 4.2 million live in poverty across the country. The numbers have gone up by 700,000 since 2010, and the Government’s limited extension to the local support grants does not make up for the cuts to universal credit, which will mean that families are £1,000 a year worse off from September. Is it not time that the Minister reconsidered that decision and made sure that families do not lose £1,000 from September, so that more children are not forced into poverty?

[Will Quince]

I thank the hon. Lady for her question. We are wholly committed to supporting families with children. We spent an estimated £111 billion, including £7.4 billion on covid-related measures, on working-age welfare in 2020-21. In addition, as the hon. Lady referenced, we introduced the covid local support grant. We have now extended that grant with an additional £160 million in funding between 21 June and 30 September. That brings the total funding package to £429 million. For the hon. Lady’s constituency—I reference Tower Hamlets London Borough Council—it means an overall funding package of over £3 million.

[Richard Burgon]

What we have been hearing from the Government is, frankly, rubbish. In Leeds East alone, 11,000 children—that is approaching half of all children—live in poverty. It is not getting better for the children of Harehills, and it is not getting better for the children of Cross Gates, Gipton, Seacroft or anywhere else; it is getting worse. Poverty levels went up by 25% in the five years before the pandemic, and it is going to get worse when £20 of universal credit is taken away from families in October. I dare the Minister today to come to the food banks of Leeds East and tell people in my community why the Tory party thinks that their children should be forced into further poverty this winter.

[Will Quince]

Recent statistics show that before the covid-19 pandemic, we were in a strong position, with rising incomes and 1.3 million fewer people, including 300,000 fewer children, in absolute poverty, after housing costs, compared with 2010. There were also over 600,000 fewer children in workless households. Our long-term ambition is to support economic recovery across our United Kingdom, and our new plan for jobs is already supporting people to move into and to progress in work.

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

In-work poverty has hit a record high and the vast majority of the millions of children in poverty have working parents, but the Government’s response is to cut universal credit this September. There is no sign of an employment Bill to improve conditions at work, and they have also frozen help with housing costs. What is the Government’s plan to tackle in-work poverty? A good way to start would be to cancel that cut to universal credit this September.

[Will Quince]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that question. As our economy improves, we will increasingly focus our support on in-work progression to improve opportunities for those in low-paid work and support them towards financial independence. As part of our comprehensive £30 billion plan for jobs, there is an extra 13,500 work coaches, the kickstart scheme, the restart scheme, SWAP—the sector-based work academy programme—and our in-work progression commission, which will report shortly on the barriers to progression for those on persistent low pay and recommend a strategy for overcoming them.

[Jonathan Reynolds]

I would remind the Minister that universal credit is an in-work benefit and it is means-tested. If people do progress, they will not be eligible for that support, so it is not an argument for proceeding with that cut in September.

Can I ask the Minister about a significant barrier to work, which is childcare? He will know that soaring childcare costs have to be paid up front, but universal credit is paid in arrears, leaving parents in debt. I recently met the campaign Mums on a Mission, which has been forced to bring legal action to try to make the system work for parents. More people would be able to work the hours they wanted if we got this right, but do Ministers understand just how significant a problem this is?

[Will Quince]

The hon. Gentleman knows that I will not be able to comment on live litigation, but what I would say is that we do have a comprehensive childcare offer, both as a Government and specifically as a Department. I would also say that, unlike the previous benefit system, in which childcare costs could be up to 70% recoverable, in universal credit the figure is 85%, so it is a far more generous system.

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

The Joseph Rowntree Foundation has told the Work and Pensions Committee that cutting £20 a week from universal credit in October will reduce unemployment support to the lowest level for over 30 years at exactly the point when unemployment is being increased by the ending of the furlough scheme, and that it will also pull 400,000 people, including many children, below the poverty line. What assessment will the Minister make of the impact of that cut on child poverty before the cut goes ahead?

[Will Quince]

The first thing I would say is that the Government have always been clear that the £20 increase to universal credit was a temporary measure to support households most affected by the economic shock of covid-19, and that decisions on whether to extend support would be made as the economic and health picture became clearer. There have been significant positive developments in the public health situation since the increase was first announced, with the vaccine roll-out now significantly gathering pace. I say to the right hon. Gentleman that any look at measures of that kind in terms of forecasting is purely speculative, but it is our expectation that this additional financial support and other direct covid support will end once our economy has opened.

[Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Con)]

What steps she is taking to help people back into work through the provision of jobcentre services.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)]

What recent assessment she has made of the potential effect of removing the £20 a week uplift to universal credit and working tax credit on child poverty in Scotland.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

No assessment has been made. Projecting the impact of an individual policy on poverty levels is complex and inherently speculative. It is difficult to isolate the specific impact of one policy and determine its effect on how many people fall below the poverty threshold, which itself changes over time.

[Kirsten Oswald]

That is simply not good enough. Ploughing ahead with the scheduled cut to universal credit means ignoring the advice of three Select Committees—the Scottish Affairs Committee, the Work and Pensions Committee and the Lords Economic Affairs Committee—over 100 Tory MPs, former Tory Minister Lord Freud and over 50 anti-poverty charities. In the face of that, how can the UK Government justify cutting £20 a week for millions of families already living on subsistence incomes?

[Will Quince]

Our expectation is that, as the vaccine is widely rolled out, restrictions will be lifted and our economy will reopen over the next few months. Therefore, the Government’s focus will rightly shift towards supporting people’s incomes by helping them back into work and to increase their earnings through progression as part of our comprehensive plan for jobs. We have consistently shown throughout the crisis that we will continue to assess how best to support individuals and businesses as the situation develops.

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

A Joseph Rowntree Foundation report stated that before the pandemic over half of working-age people receiving income-related benefits were already below the poverty line. We are at a critical juncture. This Tory Government can carry out one of the biggest cuts to benefits in decades, bringing the basic level of benefits back to early-1990s levels, or they can provide substantial long-term support to people, so which will it be?

[Will Quince]

As I said, our expectation is that as the vaccine roll-out gathers pace, as restrictions are eased, as our economy opens up and as our labour market starts to grow again over the next few months, it is absolutely right that our focus shifts towards supporting and empowering people back into work, because we know—all the evidence shows us—that work is the best route of poverty. We will do that through our £30 billion comprehensive plan for jobs.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

What steps her Department is taking to help implement the Government's levelling-up agenda.

--- Later in debate ---

[Tony Lloyd (Rochdale) (Lab)]

What recent assessment she has made of trends in the number of people in in-work poverty.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

The number of working-age adults in working families in absolute poverty before housing costs fell by 300,000 in 2019-20. We have strengthened the welfare system, spending £7.4 billion in 2020-21 on measures such as the universal credit uplift. This is on top of additional support such as the coronavirus job retention scheme and the self-employment income support scheme.

[Fleur Anderson]

Wandsworth food bank does an excellent job of helping people in need, but it would like not to exist. Some 56% of the current food bank referrals from my constituents are due to wages being too low; 43% are due to unpredictable work from the gig economy. Many of my constituents in Putney, Southfields and Roehampton are working two or three jobs, and across the country one in six working households are unable to make ends meet. What steps has the Department taken to ensure that work always pays?

[Will Quince]

The Government are wholly committed to supporting the most vulnerable in our society, spending over £111 billion on working-age benefits in 2020-21, including an additional £7.4 billion in covid-related welfare policy measures. Additionally, my Department’s covid winter grant scheme—now the covid local support grant—has helped those families most in need with the cost of food and other essentials. We take the issue of food insecurity incredibly seriously; that is why we have published data on household food insecurity from the family resources survey for the first time, to get a better understanding of the lived experience of families.

[Tony Lloyd [V]]

The Minister has made it clear on a number of occasions that the Government believe that the way out of family poverty is to get people into work. What would he honestly say to a child growing up in a family in my constituency whose parents work and who is still living in poverty? What words would he use?

[Will Quince]

Of course I do not want to see anybody in this country, let alone any child, growing up in poverty. Working-age adults in working families were approximately four times less likely to be in absolute poverty than working-age adults in workless families. A child living in a household where nobody works is five times more likely to be in absolute poverty than a child in a household where every adult is working. As I said, we have to focus on in-work progression and tackling in-work poverty, and we are doing that: we have the In-Work Progression Commission, which will report shortly on the barriers to progression for those in persistent low pay and set out a strategy for overcoming them.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Luke Evans (Bosworth) (Con)]

What steps she is taking to tackle fraud and error in the benefits system.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

The Department has taken huge steps to reduce and minimise fraud and error during the last 12 months. We have introduced a range of measures, including optimising digital capability, expanding our integrated risk and intelligence service and policy functions, developing prepayment risking techniques and introducing a prepayment enhanced checking service for high-risk claims.

[Dr Evans]

I am grateful for the Minister’s answer. Of course, errors are inevitable in such a large system, be they errors with overpayment or underpayment. Apart from trying to stop that, the key thing is to make sure that they are communicated clearly and resolved swiftly, so what is his Department doing to ensure that this is the case?

[Will Quince]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right: we want to see issues resolved as quickly as possible. I would stress that the vast majority—around 95%—of payments are paid correctly, and the Department has processed over 4.3 million new universal credit claims since March 2020. The priority has been to get money to those people who need it desperately as quickly as possible. To do that, we streamlined some of our normal checks, but we are currently revisiting any high-risk claims that we paid during the covid-19 trust and protect period. I would of course be very happy to meet my hon. Friend to talk about this issue in more detail.

[David Johnston (Wantage) (Con)]

What steps she is taking to work with (a) charities and (b) training providers to support young people back into work.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP) [V]]

Always a pleasure, Mr Speaker. Will the Minister exempt the £500 Scottish Government covid-19 payment to health and social care employees resident in Scotland from the Department’s calculation for the payment of universal credit?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. I believe that I have written to him—if I have not written to him, I know that I have written to a number of his colleagues on this matter. We do owe a huge debt of gratitude to health and social care workers for the work that they have done over the course of the pandemic. This is not as simple as he suggests. We follow exactly the same treatment of moneys coming into universal credit as Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs does and, as a result, that is very difficult to do, which is why we will not be doing it.

[Tony Lloyd (Rochdale) (Lab) [V]]

The impact of poverty is individual, but just by way of statistics, 40,000 families in the Rochdale borough are dependent on universal credit or legacy benefit; 30% of our children are growing up in poverty; yet the Government’s response is to take out, through universal credit, planned cuts of £23 million every year from the borough. The Secretary of State talked about building back fairer. Let me ask her: is that fair?

[Antony Higginbotham (Burnley) (Con)]

Last week was Armed Forces Week. One of the great things about a career in the armed forces is the skills and qualifications that our men and women receive. What work is the Department doing with the Ministry of Defence to support our personnel as they transition back into civilian life to make sure that those skills and qualifications are fully utilised?

[Will Quince]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The vast majority of veterans make a successful transition to life outside the armed forces, with around 85% securing employment easily. The DWP provides support to veterans in a number of different ways, including through our voluntary entry to the work and health programme and through our network of hard-working armed forces champions up and down the country. That work complements the resettlement support provided by the Ministry of Defence, sponsored by Career Transition Partnership.

[Fleur Anderson (Putney) (Lab)]

Last week, I had the pleasure of visiting the Little Village baby bank in Roehampton in my constituency, whose staff do fantastic work helping struggling families. I asked them what would make the most difference for those families, and they said that the two-child benefit cap causes the most damage. Is it not time that the Minister looked again at that benefit cap and scrapped it?

[Will Quince]

I am afraid I fundamentally disagree with the hon. Lady. I appreciate the question, but the two-child limit is a question of fairness and of putting those who are in receipt of benefits in the same position—facing the same life choices—as those who are not in receipt of benefits.

[Mr Virendra Sharma (Ealing, Southall) (Lab) [V]]

Three quarters of children living in poverty have at least one adult working in their household. What is the Minister doing to make work pay, so that children can have a decent standard of living?

[Will Quince]

I think I have covered this one. As our economy improves, we will increasingly focus our support and work on in-work progression to improve the opportunities for those who are in low-paid work and to support them towards financial independence. The in-work progression commission will report shortly on the barriers to progression for those in persistent low pay. Our plan for jobs—those extra 13,500 work coaches, kickstart, restart, job entry targeted support and the sector-based work academy programme—will make a difference, and of course we have the strategy coming out of the in-work progression commission.

[Liz Twist (Blaydon) (Lab)]

Some 2.1 million pensioners now live in poverty. Figures from Independent Age show that ensuring the uptake of pension credit could help to address that. My older constituents are losing out on up to £3.5 million in pension credit that is going unclaimed. Will the Secretary of State now produce a dedicated action plan to increase the uptake of pension credit?

Oral Answers to Questions

Will Quince Excerpts

Monday 17th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con)]

What steps her Department is taking to ensure that the welfare system helps support tenants with rent arrears to sustain their tenancies.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

At the start of the pandemic, we invested almost £1 billion in local housing allowance rates, and we have made £140 million available in discretionary housing payment funding for local authorities in England and Wales, to support those struggling with housing costs. We continue to work closely with the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government to support people to sustain their tenancies.

[Nigel Mills [V]]

I thank the Minister for that answer. Would he accept, however, that there are many tenants who, through no fault of their own, will be in significant rent arrears and therefore facing eviction in the next few months, and will he therefore work on a cross-Government basis to find a solution that means those arrears can be cleared over a sensible period and those tenancies secured?

[Will Quince]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. We continue to work very closely with the MHCLG to find long-term solutions to housing challenges. Work coaches are trained to identify people with potential housing issues and to provide tailored support, including referrals to homelessness services or debt advice. Discretionary housing payments are available, and the Government will make available a £310 million homelessness prevention grant for local authorities. However, I would of course be very happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss what further measures we may be able to take.

[Ms Karen Buck (Westminster North) (Lab)]

With the end of the eviction ban imminent, more than half of claimants needing help with housing costs face a shortfall between the help available and their actual rent—£100 a month in the case of universal credit claimants. The Government always say that discretionary housing payments are the answer to these shortfalls, so can the Minister explain to us why discretionary housing payments have suffered a real-terms cut and will be lower this year than they were before the pandemic?

[Will Quince]

I thank the hon. Lady for that question. We take this issue incredibly seriously. That is why we pumped an additional nearly £1 billion into the local housing allowance and have frozen it in cash terms for a further year, and why we have the two-week run-on of housing benefit, direct payments to landlords available, £140 million in DHPs, the homelessness prevention grant, work coach support and, of course, Money and Pensions Service support. We stand ready to support any tenant who needs that support to sustain their tenancy and prevent homelessness.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

What steps her Department is taking to support people with essential living costs during the covid-19 outbreak.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

The Government are delivering an unprecedented package of support, injecting billions into the welfare system. This includes a £20 uplift to universal credit and a one-off payment of £500 to working tax credit recipients, as well as rolling out our covid local support grant scheme, worth over £260 million to local authorities.

[Michael Fabricant [V]]

As a good Conservative, I believe in devolution, and I think local government is far better placed than national Government to provide emergency support. Does my hon. Friend the Minister agree with me, and if not, why not?

[Will Quince]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question, and I do agree with him that the Government do not always know best. Actually, very often local authorities are best placed to decide how to allocate local funding to meet local need. That is why we moved quickly to implement innovative schemes during the pandemic, including the covid winter grant scheme and the local welfare assistance scheme. I have to say that, in his own constituency, Staffordshire County Council has spent the £3 million it was awarded on some really innovative projects, including oil heaters, warmth packs and, of course, food to support vulnerable families during the school holidays, meeting our objective of ensuring that vulnerable families would stay warm and well fed over the winter.

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

Hard-working, law-abiding families without indefinite leave to remain have not had as much support as others during the covid-19 outbreak because of the effect of the no recourse to public funds condition. Some of those families have been able to benefit from the job retention scheme, so how will they be supported after that scheme closes in September?

[Will Quince]

The right hon. Member knows that we are restricted, as per legislation, in what we can do in relation to the benefits system and those with no recourse to public funds. I know this is an issue that he cares very passionately about and has raised numerous times. I would certainly be very happy to raise this issue with the Immigration Minister—the Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department, my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster)—and if we have a meeting, I will certainly invite the right hon. Member along.

[Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)]

What recent assessment she has made of the potential effect of removing the £20 uplift to universal credit on recipients of that benefit.

[Allan Dorans (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (SNP)]

What recent assessment she has made of the potential effect of removing the £20 uplift to universal credit on recipients of that benefit.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

Since the start of the pandemic, the Government’s priority has been to protect lives and people’s livelihoods. In March, the Government announced that we were extending the temporary £20-a-week increase in universal credit for a further six months. It is right that the Government should now shift our focus to supporting people back into work, and we have a comprehensive plan for jobs to help us to achieve this.

[Hannah Bardell]

This Tory Government chose to cut the lifeline of the £20 universal credit uplift in October, at the worst possible time, clashing with the withdrawal of the furlough scheme which the Office for Budget Responsibility warned will lead to UK unemployment levels peaking, hitting young people particularly hard. Will the Minister apologise to those whom his Government have pushed into further poverty and ask the Chancellor to do the decent thing and keep £20 uplift and extend it to legacy benefits?

[Will Quince]

The Government have always been clear that the £20 increase was a temporary measure to support households affected by the economic shock of covid-19. I am pleased to say that there have been significant positive developments in the public health situation since the increase was first announced, including the hugely successful vaccine roll-out. I have to repeat that it is therefore right that the Government should now shift focus to supporting people back into work and to progress in work, and we have a comprehensive plan via our £30 billion plan for jobs that will help us achieve this.

[Allan Dorans]

The Trussell Trust reports that hunger in the United Kingdom is not about access to food, but about low incomes from the social security safety net, revealing that 95% of people referred to food banks in early 2020 were living in destitution, with just £248 a month on average to survive on after housing costs. Does the Minister recognise that removing the £20 uplift to universal credit later this year will only push more families into hardship and deprivation across the United Kingdom?

[Will Quince]

No one in this House wants to see anyone in this country reliant on a food bank, and the Secretary of State and I are working across Government to identify and tackle the root causes of food insecurity and poverty. In the meantime, we continue to spend over £100 billion a year on benefits for working-age people, and during the pandemic we have pumped an additional £7.4 billion into our welfare system to support those facing the most financial disruption. But I hope the hon. Gentleman will agree that it is right that we now shift our focus to supporting people back into work, because all evidence suggests that work is the best route out of poverty, and we have a comprehensive plan to do this via our £30 billion plan for jobs.

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

Since 2010 poverty has risen significantly in all parts of the UK, so much so that, despite having a job, one in eight workers are living in poverty under this Conservative Government. Given that the Government are adamant that they will make this cut to universal credit, which will affect people in work, should we understand that despite the Prime Minister’s levelling-up agenda, in-work poverty will continue to rise?

[Will Quince]

We take this issue incredibly seriously, which is why we have the In-Work Progression Commission, which is due to report back soon, and why we spend over £100 billion a year supporting people of working age through the benefit system and put an £7.4 billion into the welfare system over the course of the pandemic to support those facing the most financial disruption. But I have to say to the hon. Gentleman that he knows that the best route out of poverty is work. All the evidence suggests that that is the case; that is why all the efforts of this Government will be about, yes, ensuring that we have a strong, robust welfare safety net but also that the focus is on jobs, jobs, jobs—and through our £30 billion plan for jobs we will achieve that.

[Jonathan Reynolds]

I say to the Minister that work is the best route out of poverty but it has not been working for the last 11 years, and the evidence is there for all to see.

Many disabled people are worse off on universal credit than under the old legacy systems. Ministers know this because they were forced to introduce transitional protections and, when speaking in this Chamber, always urge people to use a benefits calculator when applying in case moving to universal credit would cost them money. Keeping the universal credit uplift would go some of the way, although not all the way, towards mitigating this unfairness, so if the universal credit cut goes ahead what is the Government’s proposed solution for these disabled people—or is this yet another area where the Government actually plan to level down?

[Will Quince]

The opposite is in fact the case. Many of those with a disability will be better off on universal credit, and it is important, as the hon. Gentleman suggests, that they go on a benefits calculator—one of the independent benefits calculators on gov.uk—and check their eligibility. Labour Members—and the hon. Gentleman is no exception —regularly come to this House and ask for many billions of pounds more to be spent on benefits after the pandemic. Let us be clear: that is exactly what the hon. Gentleman is asking for when he refers to the universal credit uplift. I have to say that we fundamentally disagree with Labour’s approach. It is an approach that under the last Labour Government left a generation trapped on benefits and in poverty, incentivised not to work, and left children growing up in workless households, and we know what that meant for their life chances. Work is the best route out of poverty, and that is why we have put jobs and supporting people into work at the heart of everything we do. The difference could not be clearer: Labour’s focus is on billions of pounds more on benefits and the Government’s focus is on jobs, jobs, jobs.

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

It is not just the SNP, the Work and Pensions Committee and a range of stakeholders who are urging the UK Government to make the £20 uplift permanent, but 100 Conservative MPs in the Tory Reform Group and the one nation caucus. Is the Minister really saying that he disagrees with 100 of his own MPs who say it would be wrong to slash £1,000 a year from household budgets just as we are coming out of the teeth of this pandemic?

[Will Quince]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question and welcome him to his place. Throughout this pandemic, this Government have consistently stepped up to support the lowest-paid, poorest and most vulnerable in our society. During the pandemic, the focus has rightly been on ensuring that people facing the most financial disruption got the support that they needed as quickly as possible, but all evidence suggests that work is the best route out of poverty. We had a jobs miracle before the pandemic, and with the help of our £30 billion plan for jobs, the support of business and creating the right environment, we will do so again. That is exactly why we shift our focus to supporting people back into work and to progress in work. We are doing that with the extra 13,500 work coaches in our jobcentres up and down the country and our £30 billion comprehensive plan for jobs.

[Miriam Cates (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Con)]

What steps her Department is taking to support prison leavers into employment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab)]

What recent assessment she has made of trends in the level of in-work poverty.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

Analysis shows that prior to the pandemic, the poorest 20% of households saw their incomes increase by over 6% in 2019-20, even after taking account of inflation. Since the pandemic hit, we have strengthened the welfare system, spending £7.4 billion on measures such as the universal credit uplift, on top of additional support such as the coronavirus job retention scheme and the self-employment income support scheme. Her Majesty’s Treasury analysis has shown that the Government’s unprecedented support package means that working working-age households in the bottom 10% of the income distribution have seen no income reduction.

[Mrs Lewell-Buck]

I am not at all surprised that the Minister’s answer bears little resemblance to the reality. Even pre-pandemic, 75% of children living in poverty lived in a household where at least one person worked. A recent NHS England-funded report found that around 700 child deaths could be avoided each year by reducing deprivation rates. Under this Government, work is no longer a route out of poverty. Why is that?

[Will Quince]

I thank the hon. Lady for her question, and I know the passion with which she raises the issue. We have measures in place to tackle in-work poverty, and we intend to go further: whether it is our 13,500 additional work coaches in Jobcentre Plus up and down our country, kickstart or restart, or our £30 billion plan for jobs, it will help tackle in-work poverty through progression in work. In addition, we have the In-Work Progression Commission, which will report in the coming months on the barriers to progression for those in persistent low pay and, importantly, set out a strategy for overcoming them.

[Kerry McCarthy]

I have lost count of the number of times the Minister said all the evidence suggests that work is the best route out of poverty. We agree, in that the last Labour Government showed how it could be done, but under this Government it is simply not true, is it? As we have just heard from my hon. Friend the Member for South Shields (Mrs Lewell-Buck), 75% of children living in poverty are in a family where at least one parent is at work. Getting a low-paid and insecure job is not a route out of poverty if parents cannot afford childcare and housing, and if their universal credit will be cut. What is the Government’s strategy for making sure that work does pay?

[Will Quince]

I thank the hon. Lady for her question, but the statistics show that full-time work substantially reduces the chance of poverty. The absolute poverty rate of a child where both parents work full time is 3% compared with 47% where one or more parents are in part-time work. That is why we are supporting people into full-time work wherever possible, for example through our comprehensive childcare offer. As I said, we had a jobs miracle before the pandemic, and, through our £30 billion plan for jobs and with the help of businesses up and down our country, we will again. Part of that is having a welfare system that encourages and incentivises work. With universal credit, that is exactly what we have.

[Tony Lloyd [V]]

In my Rochdale constituency, no ward has fewer than one in five children living in poverty. Some wards have over half of all children living in poverty, and the bulk of those have parents who are working. That is a scandal. What is also a scandal is that the Minister insists that work always pays and keeps people out of poverty. It does not. What can he say to my constituents to assure them that they will be part of a genuine levelling-up process, with money in their pockets and their children not living in poverty?

[Will Quince]

When the opportunity allows, I would be delighted to visit the hon. Gentleman’s constituency. I would say to him, however, that a child growing up in a home where all the adults are working is around five times less likely to be in poverty than a child in a household where nobody works. That is why our relentless focus is on supporting and empowering people into work, and progressing in work. As I said, we have a benefits system with universal credit, unlike the system proposed by Labour, that incentivises and encourages work—that is the key.

[Mr Dhesi]

Over the years, Ministers have parroted the same lines over and over again on poverty, which is that work is the route out of it. Elements of the right-wing media have been trying to unscrupulously label hard-working people as scroungers from the welfare state, yet the true legacy of a decade of Tory Government is that the number of households in poverty where at least one adult is working increased by almost 2 million people. What are the Government going to do to rectify that unacceptable situation and ensure that hard-working Brits get a decent wage?

[Will Quince]

I have been absolutely clear. The evidence suggests that work is the best route out of poverty and that is why, through our £30 billion plan for jobs, we plan to make that happen. We increased the national living wage and have taken millions of people out of income tax all together. We continue to take action on the cost of living and the Secretary of State is looking at further measures we can take in that regard, such as, for example, our childcare offer. As I said, our plan for jobs will be game-changing and I hope the hon. Gentleman will get behind it. I will of course be very happy to meet him and businesses in Slough to see how we can make it happen.

[Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab)]

If she will make an assessment of the effect of the kickstart scheme on long term youth unemployment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

What new steps she plans to take to support families living in poverty.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

This Government have been clear that supporting people back into work and empowering them to progress in their role is the best approach to tackling poverty. Evidence shows that households where all the adults work are six times less likely to be in absolute poverty than households where nobody works. To help to fulfil our commitment to get people back into work, we are investing over £30 billion through—you guessed it, Mr Speaker—our ambitious plan for jobs, which is already delivering for people right across our country.

[Mr Sheerman [V]]

Are this Government determined to be known as the most heartless Government since the end of the last world war? If these Ministers look at this morning’s report from Save the Children, they will see that 4 million children in our country are in poverty, going to bed at night with no food in their tummy. What are the Government going to do about that? It is a disgraceful state of affairs, and it is particularly hitting the north of England and people in the towns of West Yorkshire. Is it not about time we secured good, well-paid jobs and affordable childcare for these people, and tackled the problem, which has got worse and worse since 2010?

[Will Quince]

I am disappointed in that question, and I certainly do not recognise the picture painted by the hon. Gentleman. This Government have stepped up to support people facing financial disruption throughout this pandemic, pouring billions of pounds more into our welfare system to support those facing the most financial disruption. Those were short-term, temporary measures—we know that—to support people during the pandemic. I hope he will agree that it is right that our focus should shift to supporting people back into work and to progress into work, because we know that the evidence suggests that work is the best route of poverty. We will achieve this with our £30 billion plan for jobs.

[Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)]

What steps her Department is taking to support people on legacy benefits during the covid-19 outbreak.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

We have introduced a substantial package of temporary welfare measures to support those on low incomes throughout the pandemic. We have paid out more than £100 billion in welfare support for people of working age this year and have consistently supported the lowest-paid families by increasing the living wage. This includes an investment of almost £1 billion into the local housing allowance rates, benefiting housing benefit and universal credit claimants alike. In addition, we have made sure that benefits retained their value against prices by raising benefits by a further £100 million from April 2021 in line with the consumer prices index.

[Marion Fellows]

The Trussell Trust reports that 62% of the working-age population referred to food banks were disabled, yet the Tories’ decision to deny people on legacy benefits the same £20 uplift as those on universal credit, which will be challenged in the High Court, continues to exclude 2 million disabled people, despite the extra costs they have faced during the pandemic. Will the UK Government finally provide the support that disabled people need, or will they continue trying to force people on to UC?

[Will Quince]

It is the policy of the Department not to comment on live litigation, so I will not comment on that aspect. I gently point out to the hon. Lady that we spend more than £57 billion a year on benefits to support disabled people. [Interruption.] My hon. Friend the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work reminds me that that is an extra £4 billion in real terms. That is support for people with disabilities and health conditions, and this is about 2.6% of our GDP.

[Vicky Foxcroft (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab) [V]]

Ministers have been asked many times about the lack of uplift to legacy benefits, and every response has been woeful. The Government are now being taken to court to correct this discrimination. Do Ministers not see that they are discriminating against millions of disabled people on these benefits? This needs to be sorted. Does the Minister agree that it should not take a judicial review to tackle this injustice?

[Will Quince]

I have a lot of time for the shadow Minister, but however many times she asks the same question she is going to get the same response. The Government have focused support on UC and working tax credit claimants because they are more likely to be affected by the sudden economic shock of covid-19 than other legacy benefit claimants. I am not going to comment on the live litigation, but I would say that legacy claimants can make a new UC claim and benefit from the £20 a week increase; the Government encourage anybody to go on gov.uk and use one of the independent benefit calculators to check carefully their eligibility before they apply.

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

If she will make a statement on her departmental responsibilities.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP) [V]]

Govanhill Housing Association has told me that, each time there is a rent increase, some tenants inadvertently go into arrears as they do not realise that they have to notify the DWP. Will Ministers make a common-sense change to this bureaucracy to allow housing providers to report any rent increases directly for all their tenants rather than as a fallback?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

I have explored this issue, which is a little bit more complicated than the hon. Lady makes out. We have been working with housing associations. I would be very happy to sit down with her and have a briefing on the matter with officials.

[Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con) [V]]

I welcome the DWP’s commitment to delivering an improved welfare system for people with a terminal illness, and I hope that it can be delivered very soon. Can my hon. Friend confirm that the proposals to change the special rules will not be included in the upcoming Green Paper, which would result in further delay and would be unnecessary, as the DWP has already consulted stakeholders?

Benefit Fraud and Error Statistics

Will Quince Excerpts

Thursday 13th May 2021 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

The statistics for fraud and error in the benefit system for the financial year ending 2021 were published on 13 May 2021, at 9.30 am.

When the pandemic struck last year, the Department faced an unprecedented challenge in meeting the surge in new universal credit claims, which at their peak reached 10 times the levels we would expect during normal times.

DWP’s considered judgement was to get money as quickly as possible to those who needed it. To do this, the Department took the decision to streamline our checks to ensure that people could make a claim and still stay at home, save lives and protect the NHS.

This decision meant that the Department could successfully pay an additional 3 million claims during the early months of the pandemic, at the peak of the surge in claims. This ensured that households affected by sudden job losses were able to access benefit payments to help them meet the cost of living during this challenging time.

We were careful to assess what the changes might mean for fraud and error, which is why we logged each change and considered the impact it would have. We also tracked every claim where we were unable to undertake the usual checks.

We began to restore our processes at the earliest opportunity. Limited by capacity constraints due to social distancing and “stay at home” guidance, we accelerated our innovation by building new safeguards, like our enhanced checking service, a team of trained investigators who review claims and contact claimants by telephone to obtain further information or evidence where there is suspected fraud.

We also increased the role of our integrated risk and intelligence service in co-ordinating the monitoring of, and response to, fraud risks from individuals and organised crime groups. A targeted attack on the benefits system by organised criminals at the height of the pandemic was thwarted by the Department for Work and Pensions, which meant we prevented an estimated £1.7 billion from being paid to people trying to scam the system.

Throughout the pandemic, our serious organised crime teams continued to target organised crime groups working collaboratively with other Government Departments and law enforcement agencies nationally and across borders. We have recently identified another organised attempt to fraudulently claim universal credit at scale and have worked in conjunction with the police to arrest suspects involved, seizing evidence which will enable us to pursue the perpetrators. We will pursue and prosecute those who commit fraud against the benefit system.

The action we took in terms of reinstating—where possible—our normal checks, introducing mitigations and actively intervening in cases has made a significant difference to the level of fraud we might otherwise have incurred.

However, we always knew a minority would abuse the situation the country faced and were clear that the level of fraud and error would inevitably increase, a fact recognised by the National Audit Office. The fraud and error figures published today confirm that overall losses last year were 3.9%, mainly through fraudulent activity from a minority of claimants in the pandemic.

All benefit fraud is wrong. It is a crime and we are bearing down on it as the country emerges from the pandemic. We take any abuse of taxpayers’ money seriously, but it is especially disappointing to see people exploit a global pandemic in this way.

We are part way through an exercise which is examining all the cases we tagged and reapplying the verification standards that would have been applied at the time, had it not been for covid-19. We will correct each and every case where we find something is wrong, and where appropriate, we will bring to bear the full force of the law.

In addition, at the Budget the Government announced £44 million of funding for a package of measures designed to prevent fraud and error entering the system, including the expansion of both the enhanced checking service and the integrated risk and intelligence service. This will help build on the work already undertaken to protect universal credit, which has seen us improve the way we collect information, introduce new housing costs verification procedures and develop risk profiling strategies.

The figures announced today show how hard we, as a Department, have worked during these difficult times to offset fraud and error. Despite the huge surge in claims and redeployment of staff, the proportion of fraudulent claims has remained broadly the same as pre-pandemic levels. While the value of overpayments has increased, this is in part a consequence of our decision to suspend the minimum income floor (MIF) in order to support self-employed universal credit claimants during the pandemic. We will be reinstating MIF in August 2021.

Moreover, official error in universal credit decreased this year, which is testament to the efforts of our staff and the hard work put in to support claimants.

We stand by our decision to honour our obligation to those who found themselves relying on the welfare safety net to support them through these exceptional times. Given the circumstances, no responsible Government could have considered an alternative course of action.

The Department continues to focus on reducing fraud and error. We are confident the plans we are putting in place will reduce the losses incurred during the last year and will help us develop new approaches to root out the scourge of benefit fraud.

[HCWS21]

Oral Answers to Questions

Will Quince Excerpts

Monday 8th March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

How many and what proportion of benefit claimants are in rent arrears.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

We do not collect information about individuals’ rent accounts. For universal credit claimants with rent arrears, alternative payment arrangements and support with budgeting are available. In 2020-21, we are projected to spend almost £30 billion on housing benefit and the housing element of universal credit to support people with their housing costs.

[Bob Blackman [V]]

I thank my hon. Friend for that answer. The evidence produced by the National Residential Landlords Association and a lot of housing charities demonstrates that rent arrears are growing and growing very fast such that they will probably never be repaid. What action will my hon. Friend take to ensure that rent arrears are eliminated and further assistance is provided to people who genuinely cannot afford to pay their rent?

[Will Quince]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. He is a strong advocate on these issues. As I say, managed payment to a landlord is available where universal credit claimants are unable to manage monthly payments and are at risk of financial harm. That can be requested by the tenant, landlord or work coach. Our relatively new online tool makes it easier for landlords to request a managed payment to landlords. UC also enables a landlord to request recovery of rent when a UC claimant is in arrears or once a tenancy reaches two months’ rent arrears. I agree to some extent with my hon. Friend. Rent arrears concern me too and we continue to monitor the situation very closely.

[Ms Karen Buck (Westminster North) (Lab) [V]]

Of the 1.3 million universal credit households who are claiming housing support for their properties in the private rented sector—that is, the people who are most at risk of homelessness as a consequence of rent arrears—in more than 700,000 cases, so more than half, there is a shortfall between the rent being charged and the help available. That number has grown by a quarter of a million since the start of the pandemic. With housing support being cut again in the Budget, will the Minister answer this one question? Will that number have gone up or fallen during the remainder of 2021?

[Will Quince]

We increased the local housing allowance rates in April 2020. We invested nearly £1 billion in LHA, lifting rates to the 30th percentile, giving an average increase of £600 more housing support per year than would otherwise have been received. For 2021-22, all LHA rates will be maintained at the increased level, ensuring that claimants continue to benefit from the increase. For those who require additional support, £140 million of discretionary housing payments are available next year.

[Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge) (Lab)]

What recent estimate she has made of employment rates in the UK.

--- Later in debate ---

[Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab)]

What steps her Department is taking to ensure universal credit payments are not reduced in the event of a claimant receiving two payments in the same monthly assessment period as a result of a wage payment being delayed by a bank holiday or weekend.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

We introduced legislation on 16 November so that monthly earnings can be reallocated to another assessment period, meaning that claimants affected by this issue will therefore have one salary payment taken into account in each assessment period. We have also produced guidance to help to ensure that claimants, staff and representatives are aware of different earning patterns and the impact on universal credit payment cycles.

[Matt Western]

People such as Mr B in my constituency and across the country have been forced to survive with little to no support, all because of an error through the Minister’s Department. Worse still, the pain has been prolonged by pursuing this through the courts. Will the Minister do the right thing and properly recompense those affected, such as Mr B, who suffered as a result of utilities being cut off and consequent costs as a result? And will the Minister meet me to discuss that specific case?

[Will Quince]

Of course, I will be very happy to meet the hon. Gentleman to discuss that individual case, and I am very sorry to hear of those circumstances. However, the Court of Appeal judgment was very specific and was limited to double earnings for those paid calendar-monthly caused by a non-banking day salary shift. We have chosen to go further and include all the monthly-paid who are affected by double earnings, but the judgment did not require the Department to apply the new arrangements retrospectively.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

What discussions her Department has had with the Department for Communities on the kickstart scheme.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sally-Ann Hart (Hastings and Rye) (Con)]

What steps she is taking to support universal credit claimants during the covid-19 outbreak.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

We have injected over £7 billion into our welfare system, including increasing the universal credit standard allowance for a further six months until September, providing claimants with an additional £1,560-worth of support over 18 months. We are extending the minimum income floor relaxation to July 2021 for all self-employed UC claimants affected by the economic impact of covid-19, and we are increasing the number of work coaches by 13,500 this financial year.

[Sally-Ann Hart [V]]

Universal credit has helped millions of people during covid, including thousands in Hastings and Rye. It is one of the positive news stories to come out of the pandemic, but it is clear that many universal credit claimants need ongoing support tailored to their specific circumstances. What steps is my hon. Friend taking to deliver a strengthened universal credit support service that meets the needs of claimants and ensures a consistent and streamlined service for claimants, not just in Hastings and Rye, but across the country?

[Will Quince]

I thank my hon. Friend for that question. She is a strong advocate for her constituents in Hastings and Rye. Since April 2019, and throughout the covid pandemic, we have provided funding to Citizens Advice and Citizens Advice Scotland to deliver Help to Claim, which gives specific and targeted support for those people needing additional support to successfully make a universal credit claim. I am pleased to say that we will be funding that support for a further 12 months.

[Catherine West (Hornsey and Wood Green) (Lab)]

What assessment she has made of the implications for her policies of the financial barriers to people’s compliance with the requirement to self-isolate; and if she will make a statement.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

In April 2020, legacy benefits were increased by £600 million, and they will increase by a further £100 million as part of the Government’s annual uprating exercise. Support is also available for legacy claimants migrating across to universal credit. Since July 2020, a two-week run-on of housing benefit, income support and income-related employment and support allowance and income-based jobseeker’s allowance is paid to eligible claimants to provide additional support to move to UC.

[Kate Osamor [V]]

Nearly 2 million sick and disabled people claiming ESA have missed out on £1,000 this year, at a time when they are facing increased costs. The Minister will know that for many of them a transition on to UC would see them significantly worse off. Will he review the Chancellor’s decision to continue to discriminate against those disabled people on legacy benefits? Almost a year into the crisis, what possible justification is there for this two-tier system?

[Will Quince]

The temporary UC standard allowance uplift was introduced to support those facing the most financial disruption due to the pandemic. Legacy benefits were uprated by CPI—the consumer prices index—last year and will be uprated again by CPI as part of the annual uprating exercise. Claimants on legacy benefits can make a claim for UC if they believe they will be better off. I encourage anybody to go on gov.uk and use one of the independent benefit calculators to check carefully their eligibility, because on applying for UC their entitlement to legacy benefit will cease.

[Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall) (Lab/Co-op)]

What discussions she has had with Cabinet colleagues on the financial effect of the covid-19 outbreak on disabled people and their carers.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

I thank my hon. Friend for that question. We understand how vital this support is to families who have suffered the loss of a loved one. We intend to take forward a remedial order to remove the incompatibilities from the legislation governing widowed parents allowance and bereavement support payment by extending those benefits to unmarried cohabiting couples with children. The order will be laid before the House in due course.

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab) [V]]

The Minister for Disabled People will know that many disabled people’s organisations are extremely unhappy about the national disability strategy consultation, which closed last month. They were quoted as being “shocked and dismayed” and I know the Bristol Disability Equality Forum feels the same. What conversations has he had with the Disability Unit in the Cabinet Office to try to rectify this and ensure that disabled people do not feel insulted and excluded but are properly engaged in this process?

Social Security

Will Quince Excerpts

Tuesday 9th February 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Will Quince)]

I beg to move,

That the draft Social Security Benefits Up-rating Order 2021, which was laid before this House on 18 January, be approved.

There is no question but that this has been a challenging time, and the coronavirus outbreak has caused financial hardship and disruption for many across our country. That is why, since the start of the pandemic, we have mobilised our welfare system like never before to provide a comprehensive package of support worth over £7 billion, providing an essential safety net for those who need it.

My Department has risen to the challenge, utilising the speed and agility of the universal credit system to deal with the huge increase in people needing our support. There is little doubt that had we relied on the legacy benefit system, we would have seen queues down the streets outside our jobcentres and long delays, leaving families facing financial disruption without support. Crucially, through our universal credit system, we have managed to pay over 90% of new claimants on time and in full.

That has meant that universal credit and the Government’s investment in the welfare safety net have been there to help catch many of those affected by the pandemic. That has been hugely important for the 3 million more people who have made a benefit claim since March last year. I think it is right once again to publicly thank the thousands of work coaches in jobcentres up and down our country, who have responded at speed and scale to ensure that we have supported people in their hour of need. Now they are working tirelessly to deliver our plan for jobs.

As the House knows, the Chancellor introduced the £20 per week uplift to universal credit and working tax credit as a temporary measure in March 2020 to support those facing the most financial disruption. That additional support increased the universal credit and working tax credit standard allowances by up to £1,040 for a year.

I understand that that subject is the elephant in the room; I know that the House is eager to know about the future of the £20 uplift to universal credit. The uplift sat, and continues to sit, outside today’s annual uprating order and is therefore not directly relevant to today’s proceedings, but I have to say that the Labour party is simply wrong in its use of emotive language that the Government plan to cut universal credit in April. In fact, the only talk of cutting universal credit in April has come from the Opposition parties. I gently say to them that they should be very careful with their use of emotive language and what they say in this House, because scaremongering in this House has real-world consequences, which the Department sees every day in claimant behaviour.

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

The Minister will be aware of the cross-party Select Committee on Work and Pensions report published this morning, which speaks of the need to extend and make permanent the universal credit payment. Does he think that his Conservative colleagues on the Committee who authored that report are scaremongering when they talk about the damage that would happen as a result of not continuing that past April?

--- Later in debate ---

[Will Quince]

I will of course study in detail the report from the Select Committee, chaired by the right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms), and look closely at the recommendations made, but when there is emotive language about things such as cuts to universal credit in April that are frankly not true, that drives adverse claimant behaviour, which we as a Department see day in, day out. For example, we see people who would be eligible for universal credit delaying their claim, so they claim not at the point at which they are eligible but when their money has run out and they have hit crisis. And for example, there are hundreds of thousands of people on legacy benefits who we know would be better off on universal credit, but they do not make a claim. Why? Because of the scaremongering and scares from the Labour party.

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

I do not quite understand the point that the Minister is making. As it stands, Government policy is to reduce universal credit by £20 a week from April. Surely it is perfectly legitimate for Members of this House to draw attention to that.

[Will Quince]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that intervention, but it was absolutely clear that the uplift of £20 per week was a temporary measure for one year, and we have also been clear that the Chancellor has yet to make a decision and that all options are on the table.

I have said this before, but it is important to stress the point: discussions remain ongoing with Her Majesty’s Treasury and a decision on the future of the £20 universal credit uplift will be taken by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in due course. The Chancellor has been clear that all options are on the table and that he will take into account the assessment of the economic and health situation as the best way to build on the successful support that the Government have put in place and provided for those on low incomes and in need throughout this year, through our plan for jobs and winter support package. My right hon. Friend Chancellor of the Exchequer has an unenviable task—there is no question about that—but I point out to the House that he has a proven track record of stepping up to support the poorest, most vulnerable and most disadvantaged in our country throughout this pandemic. I have no doubt that he will continue to do so. The scaremongering is not helpful.

We must not forget that the more than £7 billion of additional funding to strengthen our welfare safety net was just one part of a much larger package of support measures for individuals, which has dovetailed with DWP-led support. Those measures include the coronavirus job retention scheme; the self-employment income support scheme; increases to the local housing allowance; local council tax assistance; the local welfare assistance scheme; the covid winter grant scheme; the protection for renters; and the support and protection for homeowners. Despite our delivering an unprecedented package of support since March and the crucial support that we continue to roll out through our jobcentre network throughout the country, we know we must continue to maintain the strength of our welfare safety net, particularly to protect those experiencing financial hardship for the months to come.

The Government propose, in the draft order, to spend an extra £2.7 billion in 2021-22 on increasing benefit and pension rates. With this spending we are upholding our commitment to the country’s pensioners by maintaining the triple lock, increasing pensions by 2.5% and therefore spending on pensioner benefits by £2.2 billion; helping the poorest pensioners who rely on pension credit; and ensuring that working-age benefits, including essential support for disabled people and carers, maintain their value in relation to prices by increasing them by 0.5%. That is in addition to the comprehensive support package already in place to support those affected by the pandemic.

The Government remain committed to providing families and pensioners throughout our nation with a helping hand, should they need it. We will do so by once again increasing the levels of benefits for the next financial year. I commend this order to the House.

--- Later in debate ---

[Will Quince]

I begin by thanking all those who have spoken and taken part in the debate, which covered many important topics. Given the time constraints, I will not be able to cover off all the points raised, but as I said in my opening speech—I will just focus on this for one moment—the statutory annual review of benefits does not include a decision on the £20-per-week uplift to universal credit, which was announced by the Chancellor as a temporary measure in March last year. I repeat, because this is important, that the Chancellor has been clear that all options are on the table. He will take into account the assessment of the economic and health situation when considering the best way to build on the successful support that the Government have provided to those on low incomes throughout this year so far.

I make no apology for using the word “scaremongering”. I understand some of the points that Opposition Members made, but there is a big difference between lobbying for additional Government support going forward and using emotive language and politicising an issue. I gently remind the House that it was this Government who introduced the temporary £20-per-week uplift to universal credit; it was not a measure that Opposition parties were calling for. This Government have not flinched throughout this pandemic in supporting the poorest, the lowest paid and the most vulnerable and disadvantaged, and I have no doubt that the Chancellor and the Government will continue to do so.

Members raised concerns about legacy benefits. First, let me say that I appreciate that many people face financial disruption due to the pandemic. That is why the Government put in place an unprecedented package of support, totalling more than £280 billion, to protect jobs, help families and strengthen our welfare safety net. Just to give a bit of the broader context on welfare spending, in 2021 we will spend more than £100 billion on benefits for working-age people. That is £100,000 million—around £1 in every £9 that the Government spend; double our Defence budget. We spend more on family benefits than any other country in the G7, at more than 3% of GDP. We make no apologies that we will continue to reform our welfare system so that it encourages work while supporting those who need help—an approach based on the clear evidence that work offers families the best route out of poverty.

[Stephen Timms]

Does the Minister accept the evidence that disabled people have seen significant cost increases in the course of the pandemic?

--- Later in debate ---

[Will Quince]

I understand the point that the right hon. Gentleman has made. I know that his report goes into some detail on this issue. I gently remind the Chair of the Select Committee that universal credit is about £2 billion more generous than the legacy benefits system it replaced and is part of a broad package of support. Over and above the £20 uplift available for those on universal credit, those in receipt of legacy benefits may be entitled to other measures. It is important that they go on to the gov.uk benefit eligibility checker to check their eligibility before applying, because as the right hon. Gentleman knows, there is no path back to legacy benefits once someone has made a universal credit application. It is important to stress that universal credit is part of that broader package of measures worth more than £280 billion throughout the course of this pandemic. Yes, of course we recognise that people across the country have faced additional costs throughout this pandemic. That is exactly why the Chancellor stepped up with that £280 billion package, including an extra £7 billion in welfare support.

The Opposition spokesman, the hon. Member for Feltham and Heston (Seema Malhotra), said that we should heed the words of those on the frontline. I totally agree and encourage her to visit her local jobcentre at the earliest available opportunity to speak to work coaches, because then she will hear what they think about universal credit and how they believe it has been the tool that not only has enabled us to support an extra 3 million people throughout this pandemic but has allowed them to incentivise, support and empower people into work.

[Seema Malhotra]

I have visited my local jobcentre and keep in close touch with it. I hope that the Minister also listens to what I said about what the Trussell Trust, Citizens Advice and the Child Poverty Action Group have been saying, because that is important, and they will probably want a response from the Minister on those points.

[Will Quince]

I work very closely and meet with all the organisations that the hon. Lady references, but work coaches are an important reference point. They all say without hesitation, when I visit jobcentres across the country, that universal credit is an incredible tool—a powerful tool—to help support and empower people back into work. That is why it is so absurd that the Labour party wants to scrap it.

Several Members raised pension credit and its uptake. I have no doubt that the Pensions Minister will be willing to meet hon. Members to discuss that further, because I know that he has done a considerable amount of work in that area.

The uprating order will ensure that working-age benefits increase in line with inflation, which represents a cash increase of £500 million for working-age benefits. That includes those benefits that contribute towards extra costs arising as a result of disability or a health condition, and pensioner premiums in income-related benefits.

To conclude, I will summarise the benefit increases that the Government are implementing to support those most in need. We are increasing the basic state pension and the new state pension by 2.5%. That will deliver on our manifesto commitment for the state pension triple lock. We are increasing the pension credit standard minimum guarantee in line with the cash increase in the basic state pension to support the poorest pensioners. We are increasing working-age benefits in line with prices; we are increasing the universal credit work allowances so that claimants can earn more before their payments are reduced; and we are increasing benefits to meet additional disability needs and carer benefits in line with prices. I commend the order to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That the draft Social Security Benefits Up-rating Order 2021, which was laid before this House on 18 January, be approved.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I will suspend the House for three minutes in order that the Chamber can be prepared for the next item of business.