NHS Dentistry: Recovery and Reform

Siobhan Baillie Excerpts
Wednesday 7th February 2024

(1 month, 3 weeks ago)

Commons Chamber
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Victoria Atkins Portrait Victoria Atkins
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The hon. Gentleman articulates the case against Labour-run Wales with great power. There is £200 million on top of the £3 billion that we already spend on NHS dentistry in England

Siobhan Baillie Portrait Siobhan Baillie (Stroud) (Con)
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I have raised dentistry a lot, because Stroud constituents and dentists have been really worried, so I welcome the Government’s plans with NHS England. I give credit to Gloucestershire ICB, which recognised the complexity of this issue. Post pandemic, it set about raising provision and we have decent take-up so far. My plea to the Secretary of State and to the Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, my right hon. Friend Member for South Northamptonshire (Dame Andrea Leadsom) is to continue their relentless focus on prioritising children’s appointments, and not to let parents off the hook, because we can all do better even if it is hard to get a toothbrush in a three-year-old’s gob every night. Will the Secretary of State say more about how ICBs will be supported to deliver the plans and integrate the work that they are already doing? The local areas that are prioritising this are making a difference.

Victoria Atkins Portrait Victoria Atkins
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My hon. Friend was probably summing up this morning’s toothbrushing ahead of the school run for many mums and dads up and down the country. That is the point—we want to work with parents. We do not want to patronise them. The overwhelming majority of parents do a great job looking after their kids’ teeth. Our plans are to support those who are struggling. The expectation on ICBs is clear. The plan is a document between NHSE and us. We want to deliver this plan at local level. Expectations will be set on ICBs to make sure that they fulfil the potential of this great plan.

Oral Answers to Questions

Siobhan Baillie Excerpts
Tuesday 5th December 2023

(3 months, 3 weeks ago)

Commons Chamber
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Victoria Atkins Portrait Victoria Atkins
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Yes, I was. What is more, we looked carefully at the figures in relation to overseas care workers. We are grateful to all international people who work in our NHS and our care system, but we need to tackle the migration rate, which is too high. The package presented yesterday by the Government is a thoughtful and careful one to tackle legal migration.

Siobhan Baillie Portrait Siobhan Baillie (Stroud) (Con)
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Stroud Maternity Hospital is doing a great job, but the post-natal beds are still not open. We have been chasing a ministerial meeting about that for some time. Will my hon. Friend meet me and the Gloucestershire NHS scrutiny chair, Andrew Gravells, to discuss the issue? We think that we need some help with the Care Quality Commission.

Maria Caulfield Portrait Maria Caulfield
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I am happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss that specific issue. We are doing a piece of work on a capital survey of all maternity units as well as working with the CQC on how capital infrastructure—beds and so forth—are impacting on maternity performance.

Oral Answers to Questions

Siobhan Baillie Excerpts
Tuesday 6th June 2023

(9 months, 3 weeks ago)

Commons Chamber
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Maria Caulfield Portrait Maria Caulfield
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I thank the Chair of the Health and Social Care Committee for his question, as he raises an important point. Last year, we asked the Advisory Committee on the Safety of Blood, Tissues and Organs to reconsider this specific issue. It set up a working group in June last year to look at it and we expect its recommendations this month. We will take them seriously and address them swiftly once we have its advice.

Siobhan Baillie Portrait Siobhan Baillie (Stroud) (Con)
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So many women’s health issues begin with birth and pregnancy, as health is often dependent on the care and aftercare that women receive. Will my hon. Friend give the House an update on the recruitment of midwives and maternity teams, as Gloucestershire NHS is working so hard on that, in order to fully reopen Stroud Maternity Hospital?

Maria Caulfield Portrait Maria Caulfield
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I thank my hon. Friend, who does a huge amount of work supporting her local midwives in Stroud. I can give her encouraging news: not only have we spent £190 million on midwifery services, but we are seeing an increased number of midwives coming through midwifery training. Excitingly, we have a nurse conversion course, which takes 18 months, with NHS England paying the tuition fees for nurses to convert to being midwives. We have had 300 in training this year and we are expanding that to 500 in the next academic year. We have encouraging retention rates too, which show that midwives are not only joining the profession, but staying in it.

Recovering Access to Primary Care

Siobhan Baillie Excerpts
Tuesday 9th May 2023

(10 months, 3 weeks ago)

Commons Chamber
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Steve Barclay Portrait Steve Barclay
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I have recognised throughout that demand has increased. Primary care is treating 10% more patients than before the pandemic, with around 1 million appointments a day. There is more demand, not just because of the pandemic but, as I said in my opening remarks, because we have a third more people over the age of 70, and they are five times more likely than younger people to go to their GP. That demographic change, the impact of the pandemic and a change in public expectations of advances in medicine are all creating additional pressure, which is why it is right that we use the full range of additional roles and that we invest in technology, in addition to the 2,000 more doctors in general practice.

Siobhan Baillie Portrait Siobhan Baillie (Stroud) (Con)
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GPs, pharmacists and primary care teams do an incredible job for local people in the Stroud district, and I look forward to the funding flowing to our pharmacists, as many of them have made a constructive case for it. A local GP told me that he believes a national education campaign is needed to advise patients of when to access general practice and when to access other services, such as pharmacies. I think this is a good idea, given today’s announcement. Will the Government take it up?

Steve Barclay Portrait Steve Barclay
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My hon. Friend is absolutely right on this and we plan to have a communications campaign. The front door to the NHS can often be confusing for people—whether they should go to primary care, a pharmacy, accident and emergency or elsewhere. We will have a campaign, not just linked to the opportunity to access care through Pharmacy First, but looking at the technology innovations we are bringing on stream, particularly on the NHS app. We are also making changes to 111. So there will be a communications campaign, on exactly the lines she references.

NHS Winter Pressures

Siobhan Baillie Excerpts
Monday 9th January 2023

(1 year, 2 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Steve Barclay Portrait Steve Barclay
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As we have said previously, we have a process, through the independent pay review body, to look at these issues in the round and, when it comes to the needs of our NHS—my focus, obviously, is on the NHS in England; it is for the Welsh Government to conduct negotiation in Wales—to balance what constitutes the right level of funding for retention and recruitment against the wider issues of affordability for the economy as a whole. However, we are keen to engage with the trade unions, and we had a good discussion with them today. I am pleased that they recognised the progress made in that discussion, and I look forward to further discussions with them.

Siobhan Baillie Portrait Siobhan Baillie (Stroud) (Con)
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In recent weeks I have seen a few of my constituents in tears because they have been with loved ones in A&E and seen elderly residents stuck on trolleys. No Member of Parliament wants to deal with that. I know that my right hon. Friend is working hard, and I welcome his announcements, but the public are watching more and more money going into the NHS, and I think we need to hear, very clearly, his assessment of when the further money that has now been announced will lead to meaningful change in Gloucestershire’s A&E departments and elsewhere.

Steve Barclay Portrait Steve Barclay
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That is a fair challenge. Let me divide it into three sections. First, there is a recognition that the combination of the legacy from the pandemic, the ongoing covid issues and, in particular, the massive spike in flu create an immediate pressure in our A&E departments. The package announced today shows that we have listened to those on the frontline, and have responded.

Secondly, there is a recognition—this is relevant to some of the questions asked today—that the system has been under pressure for some time. Therefore, the second phase looks at innovation, technology, artificial intelligence, virtual wards and ways of doing things differently. To take the example of the frail and elderly, that will address their needs upstream in the care home before they get to the emergency department or release them from hospital quicker, provided they have the safety net of being part of a virtual ward, where they are subject to ongoing clinical supervision. If they need to come back to hospital, they can do so much more easily than would otherwise be the case. That stops the boomerang of patients being released early and then coming back. That second phase includes the modular capacity, because space is needed to streamline and to triage. That compression within the emergency department also drives inefficiency and poor care.

Thirdly, the Government have invested in the life sciences industry. R&D investment of £15 billion to £20 billion is a big marker of that. One of the priorities is to say that we can do certain things at scale with companies such as Moderna that will shift the dial in healthcare. That is a third but significant part of this, particularly in respect of the prevention work that we can do.

Pancreatic Cancer Awareness Month

Siobhan Baillie Excerpts
Tuesday 8th November 2022

(1 year, 4 months ago)

Westminster Hall
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Siobhan Baillie Portrait Siobhan Baillie (Stroud) (Con)
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It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. I congratulate the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) on securing the debate in an important awareness-raising month for pancreatic cancer. I meet hundreds of people each month as Stroud’s MP, and I am asked to take up thousands of issues and causes. Sometimes people demand that I take up causes, and my team get fed up with me, because I want to help everybody, and they say I generate work whenever I leave the house. I know that many MPs across all political parties will share the same experience.

When constituents come with very clear asks and a constructive approach, it makes it easier for us as MPs. I have found over time in my still relatively new role in the past three years that everybody who comes to talk to me about pancreatic cancer comes with that constructive approach and a clear set of asks about what they want to happen. It does not matter how personal it has been for them, or whether they have had loss or are cancer survivors themselves. Pancreatic cancer is something that people want to see changed. They are going about it the right way, by bringing matters to us, so that we can raise issues with Ministers. I thank them for that, as well as the charities, Pancreatic Cancer UK and others.

The more I have looked into the subject, the more I have understood why it needs to be addressed. Campaigners and families affected by pancreatic cancer talk about the failure in our NHS medical system. As wonderful as the NHS is, there is a failure to detect this cancer earlier. They raise the failure to get people properly to understand the symptoms of this cancer. One of my constituents says, “The clue is in the loo,” which I like as a slogan. They also raise the failure to prescribe medicine that will help people, which I will come to separately.

If there are clear asks in this area of medicine, people are confused why they are not being met. The medical healthcare system is failing our constituents at the moment on pancreatic cancer. I know that Stroud people, whom I love dearly, will die of this most deadly common cancer, if the health care system does not change.

I want to talk about one of my constituents: a young woman, my age, a mum, businesswoman, super-bright cancer survivor. She is a young woman with what was thought of as an elderly person’s cancer. For about five years, she went to her GP with fatigue, bloating and general lethargy, but a further investigation into cancer was not done. She went backwards and forwards with a list of symptoms, but it was not picked up. Her tumour was the size of a walnut and internal, so that it could not be felt. We have got used to checking our bits and bobbins, as my wonderful hon. Friend the Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Tracey Crouch) tells us to do, but where there is an internal walnut-sized lump—not lumps on breasts or testicles—we are stuck, and people are not detecting it. If our medical system is not detecting it, we are in difficulties.

My constituent’s experience highlights the need for people and health care professionals to be alert to smaller symptoms that could be a sign of pancreatic cancer. We need to talk about poo—the clue is in the loo. We need to raise awareness of this silent cancer. If the general population is not aware of symptoms, we will miss it and will get further into difficulties with that devastating loss.

My constituent also asked me to campaign on the issue of PERT—pancreatic enzyme replacement therapy. There has been a push from cancer charities to try to get PERT prescribed more frequently, because three in four people with pancreatic cancer reported that PERT improved their quality of life. It is about 60 tablets a day and not an easy thing for people to take, but it improves their quality of life. It reduces the weight loss, the appetite loss, the abdominal pain and the bloating or wind. It reduces pale, oily and floating poo, and it reduces diarrhoea. All of that enables patients to regain some normality in their day to day lives, and it helps food to be digested and absorbed by the body. That means they gain strength to undergo potentially life-saving treatment. Given that we know about that treatment, why is it not prescribed as frequently as campaigners suggest it should be?

We understand there is a lack of awareness among healthcare professionals about what PERT can do, and that the levels of nutritional expertise among healthcare professionals are quite low, particularly in general hospitals. We know, as the hon. Member for Strangford has set out, that the stage that people are diagnosed with pancreatic cancer is incredibly late.

I have six key asks: to raise awareness among healthcare professionals; to place PERT at the heart of pancreatic cancer treatment improvements; a top-down prioritisation and approach that tackles the entire pathway of treatment and care; to make PERT a UK-wide priority in pancreatic cancer care; national targets for the use of PERT; and local health bodies to ensure the effective prescription of PERT.

I want to hear from the Minister today in relation to PERT and the prescription—or lack—of it. I also want to draw her attention to a study into pancreatic cancer —there is not enough time to go into it today—by Oxford University and Pancreatic Cancer Action, which was released last week. I read it last night and it is excellent. The founder and CEO, Ali Stunt, is an incredible woman. In fact, we are surrounded by incredible women campaigners, and we should pay homage to the late, great Dame Deborah James. I am sure all of us have been moved by seeing what she managed to achieve on social media. I know her family are continuing with the campaign.

All of my Stroud constituents who brought these issues to me want to see action and they want to hear from the Minister. I am really pleased we are having this debate, and I thank the hon. Member for Strangford for securing it. I hope that we can all come together to reach agreement about what should happen.

Childhood Cancer Outcomes

Siobhan Baillie Excerpts
Tuesday 26th April 2022

(1 year, 11 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Siobhan Baillie Portrait Siobhan Baillie (Stroud) (Con)
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I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Dame Caroline Dinenage) on securing this important debate. I thank my constituents who have written to me about the debate to bring it to my attention. It is important that we bring local and personal experiences into this place when we are thinking about policy and legislation. I am grateful to Sophie’s mum, Charlotte, for sending me notes about Sophie and her beautiful picture. It is impossible not to be brought to tears—I am a crier anyway and I am pregnant at the moment, so I hope that hon. Members will forgive me if I go.

The theme running through many of the examples that we have heard today, and the correspondence that I have received, is a plea for the Government, MPs and policy makers not to misunderstand childhood cancer and not to write it off as rare, because so much flows from that label in terms of funding, attention and even time in this place. I understand that with 80-odd types of childhood cancer, it is complicated, but that is absolutely no excuse. We have already heard that it is the biggest killer of children under 14. I have not done the maths, but I know that that is many, many devastated families, even in the Stroud district, whom we cannot overlook.

One constituent wrote to tell me that the death of a friend when they were in their teens still plays on their mind. The GPs and out-of-hours services that he accessed did not have the training to identify that his symptoms were due to bone cancer and, as a result, after 13 gruelling months—we have heard time and again the horror of the treatment that the children go through—he died from the disease. Had his diagnosis been made sooner, my constituent is absolutely clear that his chances of survival would have been greatly increased.

We hear comments about mystery viruses and mystery symptoms. One of my greatest concerns is listening to the reality of pushed GPs, who are busy people and who are not equipped or trained enough to be able to spot some of the signs soon enough.

Nusrat Ghani Portrait Ms Nusrat Ghani (Wealden) (Con)
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Is that because there is not enough research? I was surprised to learn that only 4% of funds raised for cancer research and treatment are directed towards childhood cancer and that children, unfortunately, are receiving treatment for adult bodies. It all requires greater investment, which is obviously something that the Minister can respond to. As my hon. Friend has, I have had many cases in my constituency, particularly in Crowborough, Mayfield and Forest Row.

Siobhan Baillie Portrait Siobhan Baillie
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I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. What I will say is that that is certainly not due to lack of care and love, because GPs absolutely want to do the best for their patients. Whether it is research, whether it is training, whatever it is, we have to fix this, so I support the calls for a children’s cancer mission, and urgently so. I want to bring everybody together for research and awareness raising.

I am very lucky that Meningitis Now—that fantastic charity, which has been mentioned—has absolutely turned around understanding and knowledge about meningitis in my constituency. It is a small charity, but it packs a punch. Why can we not do that for childhood cancer research and sufferers?

Post-pandemic parents, as I have just said about GPs, will look to call 111 for advice. We told parents and we told the whole country, “Don’t go to the A&E. Don’t go out to your NHS. Call 111.” So this is also about training that is really focused on that service.

Listen, the Minister is a fantastic Minister. I am bothering her all the time about lots of things, so I know her intellect and her care for people up and down the country. The Government have already committed to improving cancer outcomes, and the 10-year plan is absolutely an opportunity to make changes for the hundreds of families who are affected and desperately need our help.

None Portrait Several hon. Members rose—
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Ockenden Report

Siobhan Baillie Excerpts
Wednesday 30th March 2022

(2 years ago)

Commons Chamber
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Sajid Javid Portrait Sajid Javid
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If I may, I will write to the hon. Lady about the national clinical audit. As for her important point about boards, the report refers to their importance and the importance of ensuring that the people on them are vetted, understand their responsibilities, and have the information that they need in order to fulfil those responsibilities. In, I think, 2014 or thereabouts, the Care Quality Commission changed the rules relating to NHS trust board members, requiring them to meet a new “fit and proper” test.

Siobhan Baillie Portrait Siobhan Baillie (Stroud) (Con)
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It is impossible to think about these lost babies, lost lives, and damaged families without becoming very upset and then very, very angry. However, I know from the work I have been doing with midwives and families, mums and dads, in the last six months or so that this does not involve just one trust. We have thousands of midwives marching on the streets. During the pandemic, mums were taking to social media, feeling that they were being marginalised and their voices were not being heard. Midwives tell me that they did not want to speak out before because they did not want to frighten the mums and dads in their charge, and that is why they often feel that they are not heard themselves. So we have to help them. How will the NHS and the Government reassure pregnant women and help the midwives to reassure them, given that all this is in the news at the moment, and how can we prevent other maternity services from failing?

Sajid Javid Portrait Sajid Javid
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My hon. Friend has raised a very important point. Hundreds of thousands of births are delivered through the NHS each year, and the vast majority are completely safe, as I myself have found and as many other Members have found, including my hon. Friend. What we have heard about today is what happens when it goes wrong, and goes tragically wrong, but especially when that was avoidable.

My hon. Friend was right to talk about the importance of considering other trusts. This report focuses on one trust, but we know that there was a problem in Morecambe Bay and that an independent investigation is taking place in East Kent. There is action to be taken by all trusts. That is why I think it is so important for the NHS to act on the recommendations for the wider NHS, and for me to act on the recommendations for my Department. We will certainly be taking action and so will the NHS.

Access to NHS Dentistry

Siobhan Baillie Excerpts
Thursday 10th February 2022

(2 years, 1 month ago)

Westminster Hall
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Westminster Hall is an alternative Chamber for MPs to hold debates, named after the adjoining Westminster Hall.

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Siobhan Baillie Portrait Siobhan Baillie (Stroud) (Con)
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I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney (Peter Aldous) on securing the debate. I enjoyed the spirited contribution by the hon. Member for Bootle (Peter Dowd)—particularly the characteristic political attacks. That highlights part of the problem that we are dealing with here. If we are unable to recognise the failures by a number of different Governments across a number of decades, we will never get solutions. Equally, if we continue constantly treating the NHS or anything about it as a political football, we will paralyse this country and things will not get done.

I know that the Labour party likes to blame everything on the Government, but today’s debate has been really useful for hearing all the different elements of what is going wrong for NHS dentistry, including the part that the NHS itself can play in handling HR, looking after staff and retention. I think that is important.

This is a critical, crucial health issue for my constituents in Stroud, as it is for other Members’ constituents. We have a number of different points of casework related to this issue, and we get emails about it all the time. Anybody who has had toothache knows that it is debilitating: we cannot get on with our day, we start off grumpy, and we end up not speaking—my husband likes that bit. Anybody who has seen a child with decaying teeth starts to worry about what is going on at home, and about the health and future of that child. They are right to do so, because once those teeth are decaying, it is very difficult to repair them.

I thank all of Stroud’s dentists: like other Members, I had so many dentists contact me during covid to offer help. They were some of the first people to be frustrated by the restrictions placed on them, but also the first to offer help. In Gloucestershire, the CCG has seen a drop of 17 NHS dentists between 2019-20 and 2020-21. That is a drop of 5% in one year, so it is a very worrying development, as colleagues have said. We believe that it is also likely to under-represent the real fall in capacity, because most dentists tend to reduce their NHS contracts before leaving the service, and only 33% of adults in Gloucestershire saw an NHS dentist in the two years to June 2021.

To provide some colour and some real-life experience, one of my constituents moved to Stroud in January 2020. She fell pregnant and was entitled to free dental care, but by the time she had obtained her MAT B1 certificate, she was unable to find a dentist. She could not find a dentist throughout her pregnancy, when she would have had that free dental care, and still has not found one. She spoke to 15 dentists in the local area—Stroud, Wotton, Stonehouse and Gloucester—all of whom told her that they were not accepting new NHS patients. One interesting and worrying point that she raised with me is that all of the dentists’ surgeries she spoke to that were accepting children as NHS patients—her little one is about one year old now—were doing so only if their parents joined them on a private basis. She and her husband have found themselves having to join on a private basis and pay the fees to make sure that her little one has NHS cover. So many parents would not have that option, but I do not think it should be my constituent’s only option for getting support for her child.

There are three key areas I would like the Minister to cover, and I have no doubt that she will do so. Norfolk desperately wants a training centre, just in case she has not got that point. First, what is the explanation for the delays in creating the improved new contracts for NHS dentists? We are spending £3 billion: why are we still in a situation where the actual terms of the contract—the piece of paper—are preventing people from getting into this worthy, skilled and amazing profession?

Secondly, what is the plan to address the recruitment issues? We have heard that almost 1,000 dentists quit the NHS last year; we have heard about the people going back to European countries; and we have heard that people are not coming from further afield abroad. Can existing resources be used to improve recruitment and retention? The Minister has responded to me very clearly: we have similar problems with midwifery services. We have lots of recruitment and retention issues in the NHS, so there are similarities; what can we do?

Thirdly, how are the Government using the post-pandemic period to reimagine NHS dentistry in both areas, the preventive action and the responsive package? With preventive action, we are hoping to bring in family hubs around the country that children can access from birth. Can those hubs be used to improve children’s and families’ awareness of healthcare and dental health? Also, turning to the responsive package, the points about data collection really worry me. As we have heard from a number of colleagues, we are never going to improve services if our CCGs around the country do not have the information they need.

Finally, I want everybody to think about the pain of toothache. It is absolutely awful to go through, and our constituents are really worried about this. I think we can make changes: I do not think that this is just a money issue, and given that there is so much cross-party support to make a change, I hope that we can do so.

Down Syndrome Bill

Siobhan Baillie Excerpts
Siobhan Baillie Portrait Siobhan Baillie (Stroud) (Con)
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It is a pleasure to speak in this debate. I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox) on all of the work that he has done. I see that team Freddie and a number of friends are in the Public Gallery providing their support.

This Bill means a lot to thousands and thousands of campaigners. There are 47,000 people with Down syndrome and their families around the country. I give particular credit to the families from Stroud and Gloucestershire who have reached out to me to express their delight that this Bill has been introduced and also to explain their experiences and why it is so important. This is actually a spectacular use of a private Member’s Bill. I am also thrilled that the Minister for Care and Mental Health, my hon. Friend the Member for Chichester (Gillian Keegan), is at the Dispatch Box. We have discussed Down syndrome for many, many years, because we are both blessed with nephews with Down syndrome. Those boys give us great joy, particularly as a distraction from this mad job.

The Bill proposes, for the first time, a duty on the Secretary of State to give guidance on housing, education, youth offending and national health authorities. It also imposes a similar duty on the relevant authorities, which is very important. The guidance will set out the steps required to meet the needs of people with Down syndrome, and I sincerely believe that it will be the start—and it is the start—of many other areas of policy and work to undo some of the problems that people with Down syndrome face in their daily lives.

My nephew, Rhys, is now 19 years old. He is the light of every room he enters. He works for the Thames Valley Cleaning company at the Select Car Leasing Stadium for the Reading Royals. He is right royally unimpressed with me—I am not cool, particularly when I am in a suit on the telly, so I hope he is not watching now. Let me relate part of Rhys’s story—[Interruption.] I am sorry if I get upset. It is not just because I am pregnant; I once tried to talk about Rhys in Camden Council many years ago and cried then as well—

Gagan Mohindra Portrait Mr Mohindra
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Let me give my colleague a brief respite. I know that she is a massive fan of the Bill of my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox) and I look to hearing further words from her.

Siobhan Baillie Portrait Siobhan Baillie
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I am blessed by having great colleagues in this Chamber.

Alice fell pregnant aged 15. As she was so young—we had no Down syndrome in our family and there is a common belief that only older, geriatric mothers as they are often referred to in maternity terms have Down syndrome children—Alice was not offered any advice. She did not have any discussions about Down syndrome. She was 15 and scared. Her family was not around her, we did not know about the pregnancy in the early stages, and I doubt that she asked any questions. It was 20 years ago, too, so there were few smartphones and limited ability to google.

When Rhys was born, Alice was immediately in love with her baby son, but a few days later, my nurse mum spotted signs of Down syndrome. Notwithstanding the absolute love that she felt for her child, it is fair to say that my sister was pretty shocked by what was happening. Remembering that she was still a child herself and all the hopes and dreams that go into a pregnancy, I have since spoken to other parents of Down syndrome children and parents of other children with disabilities—

Gagan Mohindra Portrait Mr Mohindra
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On that point, does my hon. Friend agree that we need a real focus not just on the person with Down syndrome but on the bubble around them—carers, friends and family—because they are involved in the potential ups and downs of the journey as much as the person with Down syndrome themselves?

Siobhan Baillie Portrait Siobhan Baillie
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I completely agree. I have spoken to other parents who have discovered upon their child’s birth that they have a child with a disability about their fear, and about the loss of their hopes and dreams; their belief that they would take the child to university, or to get married, is dashed. With Down syndrome in particular, people believed that the child would die aged about 30. There is such a lack of education. That was particularly the case when Rhys was born, but I think it is still true now. Thinking about the bubble—the whole family—is incredibly important, and that is hopefully what the Bill will do. So much of what we think we know when it comes to disabilities is often not true.

Ruth Edwards Portrait Ruth Edwards
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My hon. Friend is giving an incredibly powerful account of her personal experience. I know that she works with many parents and people with Down syndrome. Does she think that support for new parents to come to terms with and understand the condition of their child has improved at all since her sister gave birth, or does she believe that we are still quite far off the mark?

Siobhan Baillie Portrait Siobhan Baillie
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That is a really important question. I think there have been improvements—my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset will attest to that—but there is still a lack of understanding and education. We have a real issue with people feeling that they need to have a termination when they are told about Down syndrome. There is a big campaign on not screening out children with Down syndrome, because they live very fulfilled lives and bring great joy to so many people. Education for all is really important.

Jonathan Gullis Portrait Jonathan Gullis (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Con)
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Let me quickly add my support for the Bill introduced by my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox). On the point that my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie) made about education, we need education not just for expectant parents or young people but for employers too. One of the things that shocks me most is that there are plenty of people who have Down syndrome who could, if they wanted, be in our workforce playing a fulfilling role. We know that the benefits of work include increased life expectancy, as well as better physical and mental health. Warwickshire County Council had a great scheme supporting employers to understand how to support not just people with Down syndrome but those with other learning disabilities, and how to make them an important part of their workforce. That encouraged a lot more people to enter the world of work. Does my hon. Friend agree that those are the sorts of things that we need to see happening, so that employers understand the full potential of everyone across our United Kingdom?

Siobhan Baillie Portrait Siobhan Baillie
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I completely agree. Rhys earns £9 an hour—he is far richer than me, because he has no outgoings—but he enjoys his job and he feels fulfilled by it. Schools such as The Shrubberies in my patch do an awful lot of work to make sure that people go on to be work-ready, as do our colleges, such as SGS Stroud. Again, that is why the focus that the Bill will bring for the Government, local authorities, schools—everybody—is so important. We are thinking slightly differently, and I really welcome that.

I should be honest and say that I did not handle my sister’s being pregnant very well. I was still a teenager myself. I genuinely thought that, as a teenage mum, her life was completely over and she would not get to enjoy a lot of the things that I had enjoyed, but I could not have been more wrong. She definitely had a very different life from me in many respects, but I deeply regret my lack of understanding and some of the anger I felt on her behalf. It was unjustified and it was wrong, because Rhys was the best thing that happened to all of us in our family for so many reasons. But, boy, our learning curve has been so steep. I have seen my little sister battle for the understanding of people with Down syndrome.

Gagan Mohindra Portrait Mr Mohindra
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One thing I wanted to mention was to ensure that we realise that this affected all communities up and down the country. It is not specific to a particular geographical area or heritage. Does my hon. Friend agree that the Bill will be beneficial to all communities?

Siobhan Baillie Portrait Siobhan Baillie
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Absolutely. That is so important. When I reel off this list, if I can get through it, Members will understand why it is so important.

I have seen my little sister battle for understanding about Down syndrome. I have seen her battle for the right to medical care for operations in a timely fashion. She has battled for education. She has battled for housing. She has battled to get landlords to take people with benefits. She has battled during the transition from Rhys being a child to an adult, and she is still doing that. She has battled to get the council to complete the required assessment. She has battled with the welfare system and disability living allowance appeals. She has battled with endless application forms and then had to re-do them because they have been lost by various authorities and had to start all over again. She has battled during covid. I know that a lot of families battled really fearing for their loved ones with Down syndrome, who are vulnerable, often with respiratory issues. Covid was thrown at all of us, but we found that parents were being ignored, or certainly felt they were being ignored, and not prioritised for vaccinations. The whole family was not being prioritised for vaccinations to protect the people with Down syndrome in their homes.

Edward Timpson Portrait Edward Timpson
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I think all of us are very moved by what my hon. Friend has had to say. Does she agree that her point about the battles she described demonstrates how important it is that, as the Government develop the guidance—I know my hon. Friend the Minister will very much have regard to this point—they involve the experiences, views, opinions and, I suspect, recommendations of those who have Down syndrome, or their parents, carers and supporters, so that they form the best possible guidance to deliver the right type of support at the right time and in the right way? That might then mean that those battles are much reduced and hopefully eradicated in future?

Siobhan Baillie Portrait Siobhan Baillie
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I thank my hon. Friend for his contribution not just in that intervention, but in his speech. I loved the Shakin’ Stevens stories. I defer to his expertise as a former children’s Minister. That is why the Bill will do so much good. Even the fact that we are having this long debate today with so many colleagues is incredibly moving. I am pleased to see that the Minister is as equally moved as me and that it is not just me with the tissues on these Benches.

These problems have existed under multiple Governments, so parties of all political colours should hang our heads but also want to see improvements. We all know, from our surgeries and inboxes, that parents of disabled children who have to come to see their MP are often completely exhausted. They are exhausted by the fights to get things for their children that they know they should already have or have seen other children have. They also know that they have no choice but to continue fighting. I know that MPs of all political colours try to help, but we have to get better at getting the legislation and the policy right so they do not get to that stage.

The Government are trying really hard to make improvements to legislation and to the system and the practicalities for people with disabilities. The Minister with responsibility for disability, the Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Norwich North (Chloe Smith), is absolutely excellent and I have real confidence in her ability and commitment to secure change.

As part of my small role in trying to push through those changes, I sit on the Work and Pensions Committee, and we have been doing an inquiry into things such as personal independence payments. During the inquiry, we heard from an excellent representative from the Down’s Syndrome Association. She gave a few examples of things we can change that directly impact people with Down syndrome. She explained that it is usually the parents making welfare and disability applications.

We have heard today from a number of hon. Members that, thankfully, those with Down syndrome are living much longer. Their life expectancy is no longer 30 years, but 60 years. That means that their parents are also significantly older, and we must bear that in mind. The constant drive for digital-only application is welcome in many respects and will mean there is a record, so hopefully we will not have the constant losing of paperwork that many families have to deal with. However, there are many elderly families and elderly parents who cannot cope with that, and we must build that into our systems.

Separately, there is a new in-person assessment approach to PIP, which can throw up some interesting results—unintended, in some cases. Where previously a family could sit down and do a written submission about what they needed and what they wanted changed in their PIP, doing an in-person assessment is very reliant on the person with Down syndrome.

My nephew Rhys’s favourite word is yes, because he gets a positive response to it. If someone says to him, “Do you play for Reading Royals?”, he will say yes. “Do you run for a bus?” He will say yes. One thing that my sister said made her nearly jump up and down was something like, “Do you have your own life partner or girlfriend?” He was saying, “Oh yes, oh yes.” She said, “No, no, no! He absolutely doesn’t.” We must bear that in mind when we create those policies and programmes, because it will not always work for everybody.

I welcome all the focus on and learning about people with Down syndrome today. I am still learning—I think we all still need to learn from people with Down syndrome and listen to them.

Ruth Edwards Portrait Ruth Edwards
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I hope Madam Deputy Speaker will forgive me, given the circumstances, but I have just been interrupted by a text message from my constituent Matt Barney, a hardworking councillor in Leake and Ruddington. He tells me that his cousin, Heidi Carter, is with us today in the Public Gallery. She has Down syndrome and campaigns to reduce the age limit at which abortion of babies with Down syndrome is permitted. I wanted to take this opportunity to thank her for all her work and to welcome her here.

Siobhan Baillie Portrait Siobhan Baillie
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I am grateful for that intervention. I am thrilled—I have seen you listening intently, and it is wonderful to have you here today, Heidi.

I will draw to a close, but I believe we must all learn from people with Down syndrome. We will genuinely be a better society for having done so. I commend my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset and I thank charities such as the Down’s Syndrome Association—there are many charities that I should have had a big list of, and I apologise that I do not. I also love the Down Syndrome Swimming GB Twitter and Instagram accounts, and enjoy following them.

I thank the Government for listening and taking action. I look forward to seeing this Bill progress to Royal Assent.