Woodland Cover Protection and Grey Squirrel Control

Lord Redesdale Excerpts

Thursday 25th May 2023 Grand Committee

Asked by

[Lord Redesdale]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking (1) to promote and protect woodland cover, and (2) to control grey squirrels.

[Lord Redesdale (LD)]

My Lords, I start by thanking noble Lords for taking part in this debate just before recess, when everybody is keen to get away. But the number of speakers, and the short time that each then has to speak, shows that a lot of people take this issue very seriously.

I must declare an interest: I am probably one of the few people left in England who has a population of red squirrels but, unfortunately, the grey squirrels are getting quite close. I am not sure how long we will be able to keep them out for.

I will end my speech with two asks of the Government—I am sure that neither will surprise the Minister—to do with grey squirrel control. But I will start on woodland. On an optimistic note, we have an increasing amount of woodland coverage in the country. However, this growth has been caused by increased plantations, mostly of pine, and the Woodland Trust has raised the issue of the falling biodiversity we have in the country because of the threat to our native plantations and a fall in the amount of native trees. The Government have set out plans to increase the amount of native woodland plantations; however, as we have been discussing on the formation of ELMS and other biodiversity schemes, it is very difficult to replant native woodland because of long-term issues. When the grant scheme runs out, how will we create the financial mechanisms to make sure that land taken away from agricultural purposes is maintained?

There are a number of threats to woodland at the moment. One of the main ones is disease. I know that other noble Lords will discuss this, so I will confine my comments to ash dieback. Through a survey of my woodland and from driving throughout Northumberland, I can see that ash dieback has spread throughout the county and that the ash tree will become extinct in the UK in five to 10 years. It is a pernicious disease, because trees still grow with it but, once they have the disease, it is only a matter of time before they die through stress.

I have started planting sycamore instead of ash, because it is fast-growing. I have never understood why people have views against sycamore, because it carries a great deal of biodiversity, but one problem is that grey squirrels particularly like killing sycamore through its bark.

Secondly, climate change brings about stress, especially in the droughts we are facing. Storm Arwen apparently took out 16 million trees and affected about 8,000 hectares of woodland. It did so much damage because the storm came from the north, but trees have grown root systems that stop westerly winds. I have been cutting up very old trees that survived storms in the past but have no root system to provide for storms from the north. This issue will occur more and more because of climate change.

The third issue is grey squirrels. I have spent a number of years battling grey squirrels and set up the Red Squirrel Protection Partnership. I originally wanted to call it the Grey Squirrel Annihilation League but, for PR reasons, that would apparently be a bad idea. I set up the partnership and managed to achieve a £150,000 grant from Defra. I was encouraged not to use the words “killing squirrels” in the application, so the application was actually for a farm diversification fund with a lot of columns saying, “What’s the output?” The only thing I could put was “dead squirrels”, so it was a rather odd form.

I managed to achieve the grant. There was a great deal of publicity about it when I got it. One way I managed to make it a popular issue was by pointing out that people eat squirrel, turning it from killing small fluffy animals into a foodie argument. The one thing people in Britain will not argue with is foodies. However, I pointed out in some interviews that if squirrels are to be sold by butchers there must be a sticker saying “May contain nuts”. I did that as a joke, but—

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Lord Redesdale (LD)]

Well, there is a danger of anaphylactic shock from a creature whose main food source is nuts.

We did this work through trapping. I had a fantastic Geordie, Mr Paul Parker, who knew more about grey squirrels than anybody at the end of the period. He was extremely successful. However, trapping is incredibly labour-intensive. We started off with live trapping and then moved to kill traps. You have to check the traps once a day to make sure that squirrels have not been trapped and are still alive. We expanded throughout Northumberland. At one point we had 900 trapping sites and over 200 volunteers, mostly elderly pensioners who would look out of the window and tell us when the traps had gone off.

There was an enormous support for this, and we did clear areas of grey squirrels. We could tell that we had done so because red squirrels recolonised areas that had been colonised by greys. Grey squirrels are larger than red squirrels and push them out of areas, so if you have reds it is a clear indicator that you do not have greys.

The problem we face is that there are about 2.7 million grey squirrels in this country. Trapping could be effective, but it is a landscape issue. You have to work incredibly hard at it. Some squirrels were breeding up to four times a year. We caught pregnant grey squirrels in December and January. The number of squirrels that can repopulate an area if you do not manage to completely clear a population is amazing.

Although trapping is very useful in a localised area, we have to look at other methods in the long term. The problem is that, with 2.7 million squirrels, we are looking at the landscape changing in the long term, because tree cover will change. As the Minister pointed out about planting, certain types of tree will not survive past 20 or 30 years—we will not see those mature trees.

The bright spot is that two new technologies are coming forward. The first is contraception. I know that this has been pushed by a number of organisations that are part of the UK Squirrel Accord. The work on that is excellent. The real value of it is that, unlike trapping, where you have to monitor traps continuously, you could provide the contraceptive over two or three days, three times a year, which would have a massive effect and could crash squirrel numbers. That work is very important. One of my first asks of the Minister is that I hope Defra will come up with some more funding to push this process further, because it looks like the technology works very well. It is now a question of making sure it goes forward and can be distributed.

I am particularly excited about the second technology, which is being pushed by the European Squirrel Initiative, which is gene drive technology. I was told that I had to be very careful about the use of terminology, because it is not gene editing; it is a form of bioengineering whereby the squirrels’ reproductive cycle can be changed so that the squirrels introduced into the population breed only one sex. Therefore, you can change it so that only male squirrels are born. Of course, the lack of females will have an effect on the population. The work we did in Northumberland showed that squirrels are remarkably territorial. Therefore, squirrels that do not breed are far stronger than squirrels that do, and will push squirrels that can breed further out of the best population areas. This is an amazing piece of work that will take about eight to 10 years to perfect and then, of course, probably another eight to 10 years.

What is amazing about this technology is that in theory we could wipe grey squirrels from the country in a humane way without killing any, doing so in a safe way because the editing could have a cut-off point so that, after a number of generations, you would have to reintroduce the control. That would be a fabulous outcome, but it will need quite a lot of research. I know that the Minister has met Professor Bruce Whitelaw from the Roslin Institute in Edinburgh. My second ask is exactly the same as my first. This could be fabulous if the money were available and that is an issue for Defra. However, squirrels are costing us many millions of pounds a year and this would be an excellent return on investment.

Ecology Bill [HL]

Lord Redesdale Excerpts

3rd reading
Friday 21st April 2023 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Redesdale]

Leave out Clause 3

[Lord Redesdale (LD)]

My Lords, this is a simple tidying-up amendment to remove a financial provision that should have been removed in Committee. I beg to move.

Amendment agreed.

Moved by

[Lord Redesdale]

That the Bill do now pass.

[Lord Redesdale (LD)]

My Lords, this is a simple Bill. It started off with far more clauses, but we removed most of them to allow just one simple provision: to reverse the catastrophic decline we are seeing in nature in the UK. The UK is one of the most naturally depleted countries in the world, which is quite surprising considering how little is being done to look at how we are going to reverse that.

I was very much hoping that, because we have made this such a simple measure, the Government could take this and add it to many of their policies going forward. In Committee, it was clear that the Government do not see this as something they are going to take forward. I hope they will change their mind when it is picked up in the Commons, and that there will be a damascene moment where it is given government time and moves forward. I am not sure that the Minister is going to give me some assurance on that basis.

I thank all those who have taken part in debates on the Bill. I particularly thank the people at Zero Hour, who have done so much work to raise the issue, and their supporters, in particular Mr Ron Bailey, a seasoned campaigner who has brought so many of these Bills before Parliament. On that basis, I beg to move that this Bill do now pass.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

I will say only a very few brief words. Clearly, reversing biodiversity decline is extremely important, and we have had useful debates around the Bill, which clearly has been on a bit of a journey. I wish it luck for its passage in the other place and I am sure that we will see it again at some point.

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

My Lords, I pay huge tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale, for tabling this Private Member’s Bill and for the passion, knowledge and understanding of this issue that he brings to the House. As he says, this is a crucial issue, and I am glad that throughout the Bill’s passage we have had the opportunity to debate and discuss it. I know that noble Lords will agree with me when I say that tackling the twin challenges of biodiversity loss and climate change is of the utmost importance.

I will not repeat the discussion we had at Second Reading and in Committee, but I will emphasise the action that the Government have taken since the last time we discussed the Bill. In England, we have now set four legally binding targets for biodiversity. By 2030 we have committed to halt the decline in species abundance and by 2042 we aim to reverse species decline, to reduce the risk of species extinction, and to restore or create more than 500,000 hectares of wildlife-rich habitats.

We have set out our plan to deliver on these ambitious targets, along with other environmental targets, in the revised environmental improvement plan, published on 31 January. Here we link the different objectives, plans and mechanisms for recovering nature. The environmental improvement plan also includes short-term interim targets in addition to those long-term targets. This overall suite of targets will ensure that the policies, actions and commitments in the plan are collectively driving progress towards our ultimate goal of leaving the environment in a better place than we found it. Additionally, the plan matches the ambition agreed internationally in the new global deal for nature at the UN nature summit COP 15 in December.

I thank the noble Lord again for bringing the Bill to the House and for enabling this debate, but I hope that noble Lords are reassured that biodiversity is an absolute priority for the Government and that action is being taken and will continue to be taken.

[Lord Redesdale (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply; I know that he has a personal passion for this area and brings a great deal of knowledge to the department. I do question whether the 2042 target is far too far away. However, on the basis of his reassurance, I commend the Bill to the House.

Bill passed and sent to the Commons.

Agricultural Fertiliser and Feed: Rising Costs

Lord Redesdale Excerpts

Wednesday 29th June 2022 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Redesdale]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to combat the rising cost of agricultural fertiliser and feed.

[Lord Redesdale (LD)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords taking part in this short debate. I declare an interest: I own two tenanted upland farms. When I mentioned to one of the tenant farmers that I was bringing forward this debate, I had a conversation that lasted considerably longer than the debate will take. That is the issue we have with many farmers: discussing the price of feed, lamb or anything else takes quite a long time, because a lot of them are gambling on whether the costs meet the return on investment. Indeed, what I found worrying from talking to a number of farmers was that many of them are looking at whether the economic model they have been working from works in a period of such rising costs, which of course affect other people. An issue that they raised, which I have not heard them raise before, was carbon off-sets for trees and moving away from farming as a viable alternative because of the uncertainty that many farmers feel at the moment.

This debate is an opportunity for the Government to give any indication they have about how they are looking to deal with certain issues around the rise in fertiliser costs. I agree that this subject is not at the top of everyone’s priority list, although it came up frequently on the doorstep at the recent by-election in Tiverton and Honiton. I very much hope the Minister, like me, will welcome the excellent new MP for Tiverton and Honiton to the other place—or, then again, perhaps not.

We are of course in the midst of a cost of living crisis. The Government will face a large number of debates from many sectors about how to deal with issues raised by the cost of energy. From looking at the figures, one can see that the rise in the cost of energy has exceeded that of the 1970s, which led to an economic depression. The fallout from that rise will be seen throughout the sectors. The food sector is particularly vulnerable through fertiliser and other costs.

I shall set out the cost of fertiliser at the moment. According to the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board’s latest market update, covering May 2021 to May 2022, the cost of ammonium nitrate produced in the UK has risen by 152%, imported ammonium nitrate by 171%, potash by 165% and phosphates by around 120%. This has a major knock-on effect, because fertilisers are used not only for cereal crops but mostly in this country for the production of feedstock for animals. This will lead to an increase in the cost of meat generally for consumers. Focusing on one foodstuff—the nation’s favourite, chicken—I thought it interesting that Steve Murrells, the chief executive of the Co-op, said that it is quite likely that the price of chicken will be the same as the beef going forward because of the cost of feed, but also the energy costs of heating chicken farms and pens, and of cooling chicken sheds.

Of course, that has to be put into context. We have had a period of extremely low food costs in this country, which has been of benefit to all, and a chicken still costs less than a pint of beer, as has been pointed out in the press recently. However, the recent rise will be noticed by many consumers and will probably move people away from some of the eating habits they have at the moment.

This raises a question that the Government might have to look at. In the past, as prices have risen rapidly, supermarkets have often pushed the cost on to producers, rather than consumers, but with such rapid rises I do not believe that that situation can be upheld. I think there will be question marks over contracts between supermarkets and producers, especially in areas such as milk. I wonder whether Defra sees that it has a role in any of the discussions that are taking place.

Rising food costs will lead farmers to look carefully at their options. They could raise the price of their produce. However, there is a question mark about that. I have seen a number of farmers who, with such rapid rises, cannot predict whether the prices they think they can charge will meet production costs. Farmers could also consider switching crops. According to Farming Online, there has been a recent move away from certain crops to legumes and peas. The benefit is that they fix nitrogen in the soil. Most legumes and peas are exported, so that would perhaps be an issue for the food security of the country. Farmers could avoid using fertiliser at all, but that would lead to a 20% crop reduction, and while there are other, more sustainable fertilisers produced on farms, looking at the availability and feasibility of that method, it is more beneficial for smaller holdings than for large ones. Farmers could avoid planting crops altogether if they do not believe that the return is going to match the investment, and that will have an effect on prices, as the amount of food produced will reduce.

While asking the Government, as often is the case, for a short-term solution, I am not sure they have anything in place at the moment. The Minister might say there will be intervention on fertiliser prices, but I doubt it. However, the Government need to look at a longer-term plan for a fertiliser strategy. I know Defra has been looking at the use of land in its recent review of agricultural policy, but there are two main issues on fertilisers that need looking at. The first is climate change. This was raised by the IPCC and the Climate Change Committee this morning as an issue that, if not addressed, will mean that we will break our carbon target quite badly.

Fertilisers are a major emitter of CO₂ in their production and use. Ammonia production accounts for 1.8% of global CO₂ emissions. It also consumes between 3% and 5% of global natural gas production totals. Virtually all the ammonia produced today is made using the Haber-Bosch cycle. Natural methane gas is used to produce hydrogen, releasing 6 tonnes of CO₂ for every 1.1 ton of hydrogen, and then this hydrogen is reacted with atmospheric nitrogen to produce ammonia.

There is a ray of hope in this area, which is the work being done in Australia by Monash University. The noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, brought this to my attention recently. It is working on a way of producing ammonia without using natural gas but using electrolysis powered by energy from wind. I would like to pass that information to the Minister and his department, because it is an area where we could vastly reduce the amount of emissions from ammonia.

In my last 15 seconds, I shall finish on the other area, which is security of supply. The Government may not be looking to subsidise fertilisers, but are they taking steps to secure a reliable supply? Ammonia is reliant on natural gas and there is a real risk that there will be a shortage of gas on the continent. The largest producers of ammonia locally are Ukraine, Germany, Poland and the Netherlands, and the second largest producer in the world is Russia. With the shortage of gas next winter, is there a real risk that we might run out of fertiliser?

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

My Lords, I refer noble Lords to my entry in the register. I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale, on securing this debate and the clear passion with which he introduced this subject. I am grateful to other noble Lords for their contributions. The Government are of course more than sympathetic towards and understanding of the plight and costs that farmers face now, as they try to plan for the future.

I hope that the noble Lord will put pressure on his Front Bench to dump the idea of suspending the transition in farming from BPS to the new farming future, because that would precisely help the arable farmers who will see their gross margins double and perhaps even treble in certain areas this year. Suspending it would not help the chicken farmer that he mentioned or small tenant farmers, upland farmers or the family farmers who have grown up around me, and it would perpetuate a system that gives 55% of the money to the largest 10% of the landowners. It is deeply unfair, and now would be completely the wrong time do this.

Agricultural commodities are closely linked to global gas prices, as the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, and the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, pointed out. Farmers are facing increased input costs, including manufactured fertiliser, livestock feed, fuel and energy. Natural gas is a key input in the manufacture of nitrogen-based inorganic fertilisers, which include the two main mineral fertilisers used in Great Britain: ammonium nitrate and urea. A combination of global demand and supply pressures has caused the price of gas to increase dramatically since the end of summer 2021, causing significant issues for both the global and the domestic fertiliser industry. As has been said, the invasion of Ukraine by Russia this year has obviously further disrupted global supply chains.

We want farmers to be able to keep running a viable business and continue producing food. This is right at the top of the Agriculture Act, which requires Secretaries of State today and in the future to have the production of food at the heart of what they do. We recognise that increasing input costs, particularly fertiliser, animal feed, fuel and energy, are creating short-term pressures on cash flow. On 30 March, the Government announced measures to address the cost pressures impacting farmers as a result of the global instability of demand and price increases. I remind the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, that changes to the use of urea fertiliser have been delayed until at least spring 2023—this was one of the many actions that we have taken and will continue to take. When restrictions are introduced, they will include the use of protected or inhibited fertilisers, rather than a complete ban. Farmers will be further supported through new slurry storage grants as of this year, helping to meet the farming rules for water and reducing dependence on artificial fertilisers by storing organic nutrients.

We have published additional details of the sustainable farming incentive, which will help farmers move towards sustainable farming practices over time, supporting them to build the health and fertility of their soil and to reduce soil erosion. This is essential for sustainable food production, helping to bolster food security and the longer-term resilience of the sector.

On 6 May, we agreed to bring forward half of this year’s BPS payment as an advance injection of cash to farm businesses in England from the end of this July. I appreciate that many noble Lords on all sides have mentioned that. Payments will also now be paid in two instalments each year for the remainder of the agricultural transition period, to help farmers with their cash flow. Sympathy and understanding are easy; action is what matters and is what this Government are doing.

An industry fertiliser task force—previously known as the fertiliser round table—has been formed, made up of key sector bodies including the National Farmers’ Union, the Agricultural Industries Confederation, the Agricultural and Horticultural Development Board, and the Tenant Farmers Association. A lot of work has been done on innovations, much of which has been mentioned in this debate. I make the point that CO₂ is a by-product of fertiliser industries; we need CO₂. One of the measures we took in supporting a factory last year was to sustain the CO₂ which is needed in food production in other sectors, particularly in abattoirs.

The task force has met regularly and continues to work on issues around fertilisers, identifying solutions to better understand the impact of current pressures on farmers. Actions need to be informed by facts, and that is what we are doing. We continue to keep the market situation under review through the UK Agriculture Market Monitoring Group, which monitors UK agricultural markets, including price, supply, inputs, trade and recent developments. We have also increased our engagement with the industry to supplement our analysis with real-time intelligence.

Fertilisers are vital for food production, providing essential plant nutrients, such as nitrogen. It is estimated that approximately 50% of human-edible protein produced globally is a direct result of mineral fertiliser usage. Mineral fertilisers, when used appropriately—tailored to the soil and crop requirement, with correct application timing and techniques—are highly efficient. Organic materials applied to agricultural land, such as livestock manures, biosolids, composts, anaerobic digestates and waste-derived materials are also valuable sources of plant nutrients.

Data from the 2020 British Survey of Fertiliser Practice suggested that around 65% of Great Britain’s farmers used at least some manure, slurry or biosolids. Careful recycling to land allows their nutrient value to be used for the benefit of crops and soil fertility. We are supporting farmers in making more efficient use of these mediums. However, we know that poor application of any fertiliser is bad for the environment. The UK has environmental objectives published in the Clean Air Strategy, the 25-year environment plan and the net-zero strategy. These aim to make farming more sustainable and to reduce the polluting effects of fertiliser use by developing further policies. However, I accept that this is the medium and long term; we have a current crisis to deal with.

The current increased cost of fertiliser provides a very strong incentive for farmers to increase their nutrient use efficiency to include every ounce of fertiliser—I have spoken to many who are doing this. Farmers in the UK, concerned about high prices and future supply, did not buy at their usual rates from autumn 2021 through to May 2022, which resulted in delayed or reduced fertiliser application. However, the UK has a highly resilient food supply chain, as demonstrated throughout the Covid-19 pandemic. It is well equipped to deal with situations with the potential to cause disruption.

Every year, yield is heavily affected by the weather—the amount of rain and sunshine that crops receive. It is not yet clear the exact impact on crop yields for the 2022 harvest, but, as has been said, it looks pretty good in many areas—although we must not count our chickens before they are hatched. After a largely dry April, welcome rain was seen in May, so let us hope for the best.

Farmers aim to produce food while also providing themselves with a profit for their livelihood. However, to produce a profit, it is understood that farmers have to reduce crop areas in favour of different land use, sow different crops with lower fertiliser requirements, or choose to apply less fertiliser to get a lower quality yield. Our supply chain providing imports of fertiliser to the UK has remained dynamic in sourcing products. As has been said, CF Fertilisers continues to produce ammonium nitrate fertiliser from its plant in Billingham.

I understand noble Lords’ concerns about access to affordable animal feed, particularly in the context of high inflation. For the livestock sector, animal feed is a vital input, with increases in price and problems in availability impacting variable costs and productivity. Cereals and oilseeds make up a significant proportion of animal feeds, most of which are internationally traded commodities. Subsequently, their supply chains are dynamic and responsive to global market developments in price and availability. These developments may be influenced by both the war in Ukraine and additional factors unrelated to the conflict, such as weather conditions and currency fluctuations.

The question of what we are doing to make the UK more self-sufficient in fertilisers was raised. As I have said, it is a global market; the UK sources fertiliser from a wide range of countries and already produces fertilisers such as ammonium nitrate. While global fertiliser prices have risen, we are still producing it here and we are working very closely with the sector to make sure that it is happening.

We must also look at alternatives. The Secretary of State and I have, at different times, visited a company called CCm, which produces such technology. It is an absolute game-changer. CCm produces fertiliser that can be used in the same way as prilled inorganic fertiliser, but it is produced from sewage sludge, potato peelings and so on, and it is an entirely circular economy. I would commend a greater understanding of it, because I think it has great possibilities for the future.

Our dependence on inorganic fertilisers is something that we have to face in the medium term. We have suspended many of the changes on the farming rules for water, which was a point made by the noble Earl, Lord Devon.

On fertiliser market transparency, Defra is working with the AHDB, the AIC and the NFU on how fertiliser price transparency can be improved in order to aid farmers in their decision-making. Defra is also looking to review fairness in the supply chain across the agri-food supply chain business, which was a point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Carrington.

The noble Baroness asked for action now, but she did not in fact say what action she was talking about. I think I have proved that we are taking action. We are aware of the pressures on farmers caused by rising fertiliser and feed costs and we have taken active steps to mitigate these. We continue to work in partnership with key sector bodies, so that any wider impacts on the food supply chain are minimised and to ensure the UK is well equipped to respond to the global forces that continue to drive the supply and price issues that we are facing. We are deeply mindful of this very serious issue for farmers. We are taking action and working with them and the whole supply chain. I hope that I have answered the questions.

[Lord Redesdale (LD)]

The Minister made the assertion that we are against ELMS and for BPS. I can happily say that, after massive pressure, we are quite clear that we are for ELMS, rather than BPS.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I am aware that, across this House, there is great support for the environmental land management scheme, but there was a suggestion by his Front Bench in another place that it should be suspended. Now is not the time to do that; now is the time to make the farming industry more secure and more sustainable to withstand these kinds of global impacts, and make it fit to produce food in the future.

Rural Landlords and Land Letting: Reform

Lord Redesdale Excerpts

Thursday 21st January 2021 Grand Committee

[Lord Redesdale (LD)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. I own two tenanted farms in north Northumberland, in the Redesdale valley, both of which are governed under the 1986 Act. The farms are family-run businesses that have passed down through the generations and hopefully will do so in the future.

Upland hill farming at present does not make much money; incomes are low and therefore farm rents are not high. When the necessary and growing legal responsibilities of landlords are included, such as the recent electricity safety regulations, there is the real possibility that landlords can make a loss year on year. In my case, I calculated that if I rented out the farmhouses as holiday cottages, I would make far more than I do at present renting out the entire farm, although I should stress that I have no intention of doing this.

I raise this issue because upland farm incomes are moving from being based on traditional intensive stock rearing to environmental improvement schemes. While this is an important transition, understanding how these schemes will affect farm income in the long run will be vital, as many of the schemes, such as tree planting, will be funded in the short term, but there needs to be consideration and clarity on how this will be sustainable in the longer term when the schemes end. The Government’s target for tree planting, for capturing carbon, will require vast areas of woodland to be planted. I have planted thousands of trees, which is great for biodiversity, but it is taking land out of grazing and therefore income from the farms in the longer term.

Predicting future income sources when the entire funding of farming is changing is difficult and will cause many disputes between landlords and tenants. Any certainty that the Government can give in a post- CAP world, especially on the longer-term income from environmental stewardship schemes, will be vital for the take-up and sustainability of those schemes.

A final point is that, before any further reforms are brought forward in legislation, the implications of the operation of the Agriculture Act 2020 need to be given time to be evaluated. I should also say that the TRIG has done excellent work in the past.

Flood Response

Lord Redesdale Excerpts

Monday 10th February 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, the answer regarding the voluntary spirit is yes. That is an absolutely key part of resilience, and of how communities have got through many of the floods. When I went to Swaledale last year, the local community certainly came together with the Red Cross and all the local civic action. The communities in North Yorkshire were obviously working with the local authorities and the agencies, but what struck me most was how those communities worked together. They helped each other. There was not a resident who had been flooded who did not have two cooked meals a day. That is where we see that working of civic society: the volunteers with the agencies, backed up by support from local authorities and the emergency services.

Having the COP in our country gives us a great responsibility. We need to lead on that, and that is what the Government will do. People will obviously make their point but I think that during the COP in Glasgow we will see this country as a whole, and this Government, saying that this is the most serious enterprise and that it has to be addressed by all nations.

[Lord Redesdale (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister talked about natural capital. Will he give an undertaking that the Environment Bill will look at catchment areas in the round? They were raised in the Water Act 2014, but dealing with the entire catchment area system is very complicated. I declare an interest as owning land in the upland areas. We have planted tress under higher-level stewardship, but it seems a disjointed event. Farmers are asked to plant trees, whereas, lower down, impermeable paving has been put in.

Those of us who know people who have been flooded know that it is not a short-term issue and that there is a massive cost to the health service. A recent report looking at the cost in mental health services from the previous flood talked about tens, if not hundreds, of millions of pounds being needed for those services over a long period. Is the Minister prepared to talk to those dealing with the National Health Service to make sure that the mental health budget is adequate to meet those needs?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

Again, my experience is of how extraordinarily resilient communities are, but, very often, they will not admit that they are under great pressure. I went to see a number of farmers in Yorkshire last year. There was a facade of coping, but I was very struck by the powerful sense of devastation felt at losing livestock and all that went with it. I understand that and will pass it back.

On catchments, in both the Agriculture Bill and the Environment Bill the whole concept will be for the farmer to have an ELM, which we will bring forward, but some of the great advances have been seen where there are much wider clusters and you are thinking about how you manage that wider catchment area. A very good example is Slowing the Flow at Pickering, but there are other ways of getting ownership that goes much wider than a number of landowners or farmers, which gives you an advantage. The schemes will be trialled and co-designed with ranges of farmers and landowners so that we get that advantage of working with the countryside and with natural capital.